Heat Treatment - Crystal Weaving Foundation

Getting some strong wrists cutting all that bamboo haha.
Man those are some great pictures.

You got those T15 Carbides very very fine.

That's interesting to see the difference between 10v and k390

68.5rc [T15, 10v, k390] Edges after finely cut 120" (10 ft) of disposable bamboo chopstick

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O1 65rc HT 4.0
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Jerry is certainly free to claims whatever infi possesses/virtues. Discuss marketing claims probably be more or less = whatever in brain of its be holder.

Per our PMs ... I appreciate your offer infi & sr101 knives for me to side-to-side harsh test with my A8Mod blades however (beside privately, and now publicly) I passed because there are more down than up sides, albeit could be entertaining.

OK - look like Shawn/Deadbox created a thread on Infi. I'll post my 2cents there...

A bit late here, but with all the talk of INFI and A8Mod here... thought I'd add what I though I remembered reading here a while back. INFI, while similar to A8Mod is indeed different. Also, while INFI has good toughness... it's not necessarily the toughest steel out there. The best way one should probably look at this steel is a jack of all trades compared to most steels/HT parameters available from MOST if not all manufacturers.

You will find many steels that are better at doing certain things, but I would expect it to be quite difficult to find a steel that performs similarly across the board. I could be mixed up and remembering this all wrong, but thought I would add it as a potential data point. Excerpt below is quoted from www.bussecollector.com, written by Jerry Busse.
...

Jerry Busse"
 
There are a lot of info/insight about matrix attributes vs wear by ultra fine abrasive in stiff cutting material.

Looking at role of Cobalt in edges - after 10ft of finely cut bamboo - of 10V, K390, T15 you can see the wear pattern (rate & path). T15 has almost a 90* degrees (inclusive) apex bevel <= I have to angle the blade more steep to initiate the cut. 10V matrix is clearly stronger K390 & T15, you can see its final edge has less convexity and numerous fine carbides are still in matrix, vs where most fine carbides are removed from K390 matrix. There are a lot more info/insight if anyone care to look/study these images carefully.

Getting some strong wrists cutting all that bamboo haha.
Man those are some great pictures.

You got those T15 Carbides very very fine.

That's interesting to see the difference between 10v and k390
 
Hello 2020.

Testing zmax 63.5rc and 70rc to see wear pattern and ht attributes fit well for cutting rope & bamboo scenarios.

In short, for rope cutting - the 70rc blade retains high cutting ability (performance) due to low wear.

for extended bamboo cutting - 63.5rc blade is better due to higher wear rate, whereby served as self-sharpening, thus edge maintain good cutting ability geometry. vs 70rc blade low wear, thus has wider edge/apex radius = lower cutting ability due lower contact psi (basically almost a square - flat top - edge). 70rc zmax result is similar to k390 & cpm t-15 69rc results.

Although 63.5rc is tougher than 70rc blade however this attribute didn't played a relevant role for this test.

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Thanks Timmy.

I plan to keep .120" thick jungle knife for all-around and travel chopper. Nevertheless when I'm done testing the 0.130" thick (similar weight and a little narrower) and it remain intact - will let you have a chance of extra long term play/eval it... at that time, I will ping you.

==Luong

I'll take a jungle knife please!

Really nice work there! I like that thing!
 
Thanks Timmy.

I plan to keep .120" thick jungle knife for all-around and travel chopper. Nevertheless when I'm done testing the 0.130" thick (similar weight and a little narrower) and it remain intact - will let you have a chance of extra long term play/eval it... at that time, I will ping you.

==Luong

THANKS MAN!

I'lll put it through it's paces on meat and bones! Barbeque season is coming up here in Minnesota!
 
Finished reading through whole thread, thought I'd write a synopsis. And make some guesses toward the non-disclosed versions.
V1 HT: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads...ving-foundation.1409721/page-12#post-16355537
or http://web.archive.org/web/20160830...aving-foundation-how-and-a-little-bit-of-why/

So far, neither the existence of the name-giving 'woven' outer structure nor the precipitation of HCP has been proven.
Combination of HRC + toughness suggests, at the very least, a high lath martensite structure with little or no influence of (softer) bainite. So far so good.
V1.5 aims at grain refinement and some sort of element gradient.
V2 quote "ht 2.0 (grain size; grain boundary; particle interface optimization; excludes element gradient)"
- grain size refinement based on earlier experiments ('nano-grain'), which were abandonded due to toughness issues, 'nano-cracks'. Going by older threads it's based on longer austenitization at lower aust temp and use of super quench. Probably includes prequenching/sub aust normalizing and something else that was alluded to in the threads.
- grain boundary: only thing that comes to mind is a high temp normalize & quench to convert grain boundary cementite. [This concept applies to large cementite particles formed by overheating in some UHC steels. does not apply here nor to GBC in general]
- particle interface: no idea. seems to relate to carbide/grain/matrix interactions.
[maybe has something to do with grain boundary angles]

V2.5 aimed at alloyed steel like S30V it seems. guess: manipulation of carbides to get smaller/harder types. so some sort of secondary carbide refinement. maybe locking away carbon to achieve different carbide ratio by lower total volume... or other way around - with this HT, it seems higher RA doesn't work quite as usual, as long as grain size is not affected. Don't know enough about carbides to make better guesses. Probably something else entirely/way more exotic/complicated anyways.

[potential carbide refinement methods (what I've found ~1 year later):
solution treatment (basically "carbide normalizing" at temps above Acm, causes grain growth), temper carbides as grain refinement and grain refinement as carbide refinement method via grain size(relative surface):grain boundaries as carbide precipitation sites (more at same volume=smaller) factor.
GC depends on GR which depends on other GC. potentially very time&energy intensive if used to full extent).
- solution treatment/thermal cycling in alloy steel https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/grains-carbides-and-you.1208483/post-13847171 & https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/alternate-carbon-steel.906893/post-10276432
gbc theory https://forum.spyderco.com/viewtopic.php?p=986084&sid=184f075a00a5247b07dbfc7722b1579f#p986084]

V3 still aimed at alloyed steels, improved toughness.
- additional step to refine grain further, to '10-500nm range' (equivalent to ASTM grain size 30-19 (!) if I calculated that correctly) in most steels. Quite likely extended deep cryo (cryo aging) aimed at eta-carbides and/or some kind of precipitation hardening. Long cryo would also help explain why full V4 HT takes 2 entire days to complete.
process at this stage is probably individualized per steel type ("much more than simple temperature and time parameters")

V4 (technically 7th iteration, counting intermediate steps) another grain refinement step, mainly for alloyed steels. DET anneal maybe, if it wasn't added earlier.
 
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lost two knives trying to straighten by hammering (a few days) after initial quench. they where ground a bit too thin and austenitized in a forge, hence the distortion. the first knife, spring steel, was indeed very easy to bend at the spine but chipped badly at the edge (although not immediately). second knife, ball bearing race, wasn't anywhere malleable. took a few strikes, broke in half near tip. no change in sound/feel before breaking. apart from the microstructure obviously being harder than annealed or normalized, I suspect some of the contained RA simply transformed to martensite. which I guess would mean that if straightening is necessary, cryo should follow immediately after.
 
Thanks for read and summarized cwf ht versions well. Open and critical mindedness is most welcome/appreciated.
Analysis of ht via edge interaction is like looking through a pin-hole, easy to fall into nanoscopic or blurred big picture. When there are unreconciled/unaccountable inconsistencies/n0t-understand, I need to step back to get out of tunnel vision.
Finished reading through whole thread, thought I'd write a synopsis. And make some guesses toward the non-disclosed versions.
....

See question(able) in red. What were details of your ht protocol for (spring & likely be 52100) steels? If you are looking for my opinion or assessment, please ship broken pieces (if they are still untempered) to me for a closer look.

lost two knives trying to straighten by hammering (a few days) after initial quench?. they where ground a bit too thin and austenitized in a forge, hence the distortion. the first knife, spring steel, was indeed very easy to bend at the spine but chipped badly at the edge (although not immediately). second knife, ball bearing race, wasn't anywhere malleable. took a few strikes, broke in half near tip. no change in sound/feel before breaking. apart from the microstructure obviously being harder than annealed or normalized, I suspect some of the contained RA simply transformed to martensite. which I guess would mean that if straightening is necessary, cryo should follow immediately after.

==========
Will test new ht param/idea via jungle knives 1095 & 26c3 (src from AKS) and use chopping fun as motivator. 14" blade, full tang, target hrc 64-65
 
my HT is, on the austenitizing side, too imprecise to discuss - austenitize to 800/850°C (bb/spring) in coke forge, less than 5 min holding time, check by eye and salt melting temp (800C), no thermocouple. I have one for checking oil temp of course and for general reference but it's not permanently installed like in an electric oven.
quench in 240°C hot oil, cooling rate below 1F/min thanks to 3-4 inches of wood ash isolation. after cooldown I cleaned the blades waited a few days (no particular reason, just had other things to do), then tried to straighten w planisher's hammer and a large soft wood block. for the spring steel knive it worked suprisingly well as long as I worked the spine only, the ball bearing knife by comparison didn't budge. maybe should have tried bending instead or a softer hammer.
come to think of it, during quench I left the blades hanging parallel to the sides of the container, where the oil could have cooled down faster compared to center. may have added to distortion a bit. next time I'll align them to center, edges facing inward.
thank you for offering to analyze the pieces, but I repurposed the knives. yesterday I considered the knives lost was intending to do some destructive testing & write them off; today I tried to salvage them i.e shortened or removed broken parts & finished the HT (20h freezer cryo + 20 min 130-140°C in toaster oven). the bb knife ended up ugly, serbian santoku like, not my favorite style but better than wasting hours of work, the larger spring steel knife has lower profile now, retained a nasty crack too close to the tang - will see how long it lasts before breaking. will post pics.

btw with 1.0 HT quench, is the purpose of the cutting/stirring motion to break up the vapor barrier? would it maybe be better to automatize the motion, by hanging the knife from a jigsaw, offset drill bit, electric toothbrush etc. - some kind of moving/vibrating tool. this could increase quench speed and perhaps remove the need to an intermediate quench in a faster quenchant for some no/low alloy steels.
 
You should get your knives tested by Larrin at knife steel nerds... he is an engineer expert in knife design and heat treatment
 
O outlandish710 - those are decent looking nakiri, unfortunately didn't ht test blades first, since your ht steps were problematic. 52100 shouldn't hardened much when quenched into 240c oil, where it actually hardened - which most likely this blade was quite over-heated/aust. For these 2 steels - ht 1.0 should be approx below

1. aust 800 until looks fairly evenly red (2-5 minutes soak)
2. quench into 50c canola (or some faster) oil for 2-3 seconds. Pull out and quickly...
3. into 200c oil to start CWF, slow cool until near room temp.
4. into freezer for 30minutes, air warm to room.
5. into 140c oil for 30minutes, air cool to near room then redo step 4. and 5. a second time.

*If/when need straighten, please heat up blade to at least 140c or higher at temper temp.

Revolverrodger Revolverrodger - you already know it... best place to forge blades = It is located in the northwest of the Black Land of Mordor :)
 
I've been testing latest ht 1095 and 26c3 @ 65rc for about 3 weeks.

HT: aust 1470F, 10-20 minutes soak, interrupted Super Quench, latest CWF, 325F tempered.
1095 (from AKS), .136" thick
Edgepro 18dps 600 grit diamond plate, 0.017" BET, 0.041" 1/8" up from apex.

 
I'm still preparing (around 20) blades for Batch 2 of HT 5.0.

HT 5.0 main objectives: increase impact load; increase wear resistant.

So let's see ht 5.0 batch 1 edge impact load capability

BluntCut MetalWorks 20201018
HT 5.0 Batch 1 1095 65rc Jungle Knife/Chopper
sharpened: 18dps (via edgepro), 0.018" behind edge thickness
Chop 16D Nails with African Blackwood backing


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Guilty as charged ;) African Blackwood makes outstanding handle (imo better than ebony). A package of few tuning stocks Argentine Lignum Vitae expect to arrive on Friday, so I will it as backing and cut/chop test material. Test needs reasonably repeatable material, which is super hard + somewhat brittle like bone + good backing for nail chop + ... trying ALV.

Another interesting result. Hurts me to see that African Black Wood used as a backstop!!!! Handle materials abuse!!!
 
Batch 2 HT 5.0 A & B 32 work pieces are ready for hardening. Probably be 6 Aust heating. Interrupted Super Quench for low alloy. Oil quench for high alloy. None & Pre & post Cryo tests.

Low alloy target 63-66rc
High alloy stainless 63-65rc
High alloy 4-6%cr 2-3rc below peak hrc (cwf ht 1-4 reference)

Cost: Time(days) & Resource intensive (aka most expensive sequencing)

Risk of Failure: Moderate. However most blades can be re-ht to plain HT 5.0 rather than A or B

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