Help: $400+ folders vs. not-so-expensive ones

To me, once you get above the $200 mark, you're really just buying "man jewelry". My Manix 2 (my most expensive folder), in basic form and function, will do everything just as well as a Sabanza or other high dollar knife. Thats not to say those others aren't worth the extra money, just that they don't work as a knife any better... and for me, a good, quality tool at $100-$200 is just as good as one at $400-$700.

That said, there is an intrinsic value in these higher priced knives that makes them worth the money beyond being just a tool. I don't feel the extra is right for me, but I definitely get it. I like watches. And though I'm not in Rolex territory yet, I've got 8 or 10, ranging from $50 Timex's to higher end Tissot's. As tools, they all function comparably, but get above the $2-300 mark, and there starts to be a different level of fit, finish, and craftsmanship. As well as pride in ownership. It's MY man jewelry!

And I won't even get into cars or firearms... LOL

So no, as long as you're buying quality tools, I don't personally see a functional difference. But, there's nothing wrong with buying high-end items, it that's where someone wants to spend there money.
 
V84mystang said:
I’m not exactly new to knives but I’ve always been a pragmatic user/purchaser; I don’t buy cheap but I don’t spend more than I have too to get the job done.

My question is, from a practical standpoint what does this knife (or any folding knife coasting over $350) do that a Benchmade Grip or spyderco PM2 won’t do? You know, something a fraction of the price.
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Your question was "from a practical standpoint.....what can [some expensive knife] do that a [less expensive well made knife] won't do?"

From a practical standpoint: nothing. If you compare a well made Benchmade, ZT, Spyderco, etc., to a pricier folder that has similar design, steel, materials, lock type, blade grind, I would expect little to no PRACTICAL difference in things like cutting performance (assuming both knives are well sharpened), blade strength, durability, lock strength and reliability, etc. If you're strictly looking at pragmatic factors and not interested in collecting, pride of ownership, buying elegantly crafted custom designs, and so on, then I honestly think you can get incredible performing knives with great materials--everything you could ever want--for under $250. Because I'm a pragmatic user too, about 99% of my knife purchases are in this range now, in fact most are under $150.
 
maximus83 said:
Your question was "from a practical standpoint.....what can [some expensive knife] do that a [less expensive well made knife] won't do?"

From a practical standpoint: nothing. If you compare a well made Benchmade, ZT, Spyderco, etc., to a pricier folder that has similar design, steel, materials, lock type, blade grind, I would expect little to no PRACTICAL difference in things like cutting performance (assuming both knives are well sharpened), blade strength, durability, lock strength and reliability, etc. If you're strictly looking at pragmatic factors and not interested in collecting, pride of ownership, buying elegantly crafted custom designs, and so on, then I honestly think you can get incredible performing knives with great materials--everything you could ever want--for under $250. Because I'm a pragmatic user too, about 99% of my knife purchases are in this range now, in fact most are under $150.
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If we compare an XM18 to a ZT 0562 in many ways the ZT seems like the better knife for the price. The blade is more often centred, the flipping action is better and fit and finish is very good for the price.

What the XM18 has going for it is that you could take the knife apart and put it back together 600 times; the 601st time will be the same and the screws will still work.
 
Lapedog said:
What the XM18 has going for it is that you could take the knife apart and put it back together 600 times; the 601st time will be the same and the screws will still work.
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Except why the F would you have any practical functional reason to do so ? I have many Cold Steel folders I've used hard for many years that I've never needed to even adjust the pivot . Uh...except the ones I used as throwing knives !
 
DocJD said:
Except why the F would you have any practical functional reason to do so ? I have many Cold Steel folders I've used hard for many years that I've never needed to even adjust the pivot . Uh...except the ones I used as throwing knives !
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Idk I like to take my CRKs apart when they are starting to run abit dry and clean them out and relube them.
 
Interesting topic! I can’t really add much to it as I’ve only recently started collecting knives again. In my opinion though the appeal is more in collecting than using.
 
I have a Strider SnG that I really really like. So I'll tell you what makes it worth it.

The steel and HT: Mine is in micromelt PD1, which is one of the toughest cutlery tool steels with good wear resistance. The heat treat of Striders are known to be perfect.

The warranty (aka Service Plan for life)
Strider fixes any damages caused by use and abuse assuming the knife wasnt modified (regrinds etc). For free. For life. Which no other knife company that i know of provides. Break it, they fix it. Is the blade worn down? They will replace it. They will make sure you have a fully functional knife for the rest of your life.

That's worth it in my book
 
Great replies, from a lot of knowledgeable folks. I appreciate quality whether it be a knife, watch, firearm, etc. I try to buy in the middle to upper end, but not the ridiculously expensive. As someone else said, diminishing returns at a certain point. So, while I do have a CRK Sebbie 25, most of my knives fall into the $50 - $150 realm. I will carry an inexpensive, Chinese made Kershaw as well as more expensive ZT's, Benchmades, etc. They all work just fine, but you can get screaming deals on good knives these days, so really no need to spend a ton. Lately I've been on a "minimalist" phase so when I go for a hike in the woods, I carry a $14 Kershaw folder, and $12 Mora fixed blade. So, for $26 total, I am covered. :)
 
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Yeah. Moras. What can I say. Talk about a ton of practical functionality crammed into a few well-spent dollars.

Thanks again for all the responses, guys! I feel more educated.
 
Boiled down to simplest term.

It won’t cut any better than a cheap knife, exactly as a Lamborghini won’t get you where you going any better than a Prius will. Some folks just like more expensive stuff, better fit and finish, prettier or whatever the reason.
 
I think your friend bought the Medford because he thought it was cool just like non knife people think or gravitate to say $10 karambts or rainbow color blades on cheap knives.

The difference between high dollar production knives vs cheap ones is usually finishing, action, low production numbers, retained value or even increase in value, and tolerances, heat treatment and more.

Its not to say a 100$ doesn't work fine. But they make a design then cut out the parts. Make it the color they want and put it together and ship.

For custom knives you pay more for labor and the makers name. He's making a living off his skills. So it may or may not be a knife that could be anywhere from $100-400 from a mass production house, but because it's done by hand or in small batches by a single person as a hobby or his own personal business, and labor has to be factored in. Knife makers are not rich and it's not a profession to get into to make lots of money. Custom makers often sell designs to mass production companies to make more of that money while attracting people who want a better quality custom knife from them vs the low end materials from production knife. Then you can get into midtechs and custom mid techs and even more.

Anyway I prefer $200-300 knives for the quality, the finishing, etc. I almost always with a few exceptions don't like $100 knives. And can't stand most budget knives except a few that are quality. I spend a lot of time saving for these expensive knives. I'd love to more customs but they aren't always great and often over $450 and money doesn't grow on trees.

Also note that because a knife is expensive doesn't mean it's always going to be good. There are always exceptions. It sucks but it is what it is.
 
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Chevy vs Rolls vs Picasso. The Chevy performs all the same tasks that the Rolls but the feeling you get driving the Rolls is amazing & it shows everyone around you that you have made it. It is a mixture of self satisfaction and a little bragging. Now we have the Picasso, worth more than both cars put together. The Picasso is about self satisfaction, it doesn't do anything constructive yet you sit back and just look at it for hours.

The Chevy is the workhorse knife, Sub $100.00 nothing fancy like a Grip, PM2,Cutjack etc. a user for everyday. Next is the Rolls. You carry it only on special occasions and always have a second knife that is a beater to actually use.The Rolls is a Medford, Benchmade Gold Class, Strider CRK etc. You carry the Rolls for two reasons, #1 it makes you feel good carrying it because you are a collector and appreciate the knife #2 if you happen to run into another knife collector you have and impressive knife to show that you are a serious collector. And now for the Picasso, That one is all about you. You can take a chair sit back and just look at it with a feeling of self satisfaction, you don't care if other people like it or not and they don't need to know about. Chevy is the PM2, Cutjack, Kershaw etc. It's a user but you also like carrying it. The Rolls is your expensive user like CRK, Strider, Medford, you will use it only if necessary and put it back in the collection when you get home. Lastly the Picasso which is your Shirogorov, Rockstead or Marfione. You don't carry those but you look at them with a feeling of pride knowing that not many people can have or afford these and you also have a one off that nobody else has. These are for you and real collectors ( if you know any ) to enjoy touching and flipping.

This is the psychology I use for my collecting habits. What is also nice to know is that your better knives are almost like cash in the bank. If you price it competitively sometimes it will sell in less than 30 minutes.
Anyhow this system works for me and hopefully it will help you make some decisions on knife purchases.
Good luck and enjoy
 
Lapedog said:
Idk I like to take my CRKs apart when they are starting to run abit dry and clean them out and relube them.
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I just hose the innards with WD-40 or similar spray . I only do surgery when absolutely necessary .
Pilot1 said:
Great replies, from a lot of knowledgeable folks. I appreciate quality whether it be a knife, watch, firearm, etc. I try to buy in the middle to upper end, but not the ridiculously expensive. As someone else said, diminishing returns at a certain point. So, while I do have a CRK Sebbie 25, most of my knives fall into the $50 - $150 realm. I will carry an inexpensive, Chinese made Kershaw as well as more expensive ZT's, Benchmades, etc. They all work just fine, but you can get screaming deals on good knives these days, so really no need to spend a ton. Lately I've been on a "minimalist" phase so when I go for a hike in the woods, I carry a $14 Kershaw folder, and $12 Mora fixed blade. So, for $26 total, I am covered. :)
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When you said "minimalist" phase, I thought for a second you were buying Folts designs .
 
Lapedog said:
If we compare an XM18 to a ZT 0562 in many ways the ZT seems like the better knife for the price. The blade is more often centerd, the flipping action is better and fit and finish is very good for the price.

What the XM18 has going for it is that you could take the knife apart and put it back together 600 times; the 601st time will be the same and the screws will still work.
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This assumes that you actually ever take apart your knives. I have never done so. If I feel that I have to take a knife apart, I think it's probably broke and often a manufacturing or warranty issue.
 
DocJD said:
I just hose the innards with WD-40 or similar spray . I only do surgery when absolutely necessary .
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Yup. I don't disassemble knives anymore--at all. I MIGHT make a rare exception obviously if I have to fix something like a broken spring and don't want to mess with shipping and warranty service. But now I have a dunking system for gun parts and knives. I blast them out with air, soak them in a Rubbermaid full of Mpro-7 gun cleaner with a small oven rack to keep them off the bottom and sediment. Occasionally I "clean" the dunk tank fluid by pouring it thru a coffee filter (thanks to @Bill DeShivs for that commonsense suggestion). This setup works like a charm, no disassembly required.

So...the uber epic off-the-charts perfect tolerances on some of the high-end knives is not a big selling point to me anymore. I'm sure it's awesome to have a knife that nice--I'd enjoy it too--but it doesn't make a PRACTICAL difference to me in EDU knives, so I don't want to pay for it.

Interesting that I've increasingly gone this route with firearms. I used to strip everything apart down to the last pin and spring, and clean them obsessively. Have you ever done this with a 1911? :) Not a trivial task. Anyway, I learned after a while this is overkill, totally not necessary to keep a firearm reliable and functional, and in fact, over-indulgence in dis/reassembly, actually can REDUCE the reliability and fit of your firearm over time. I think there's some parallel there with knives too, but I won't try to push the analogy too far. :)
 
maximus83 said:
...So...the uber epic off-the-charts perfect tolerances on some of the high-end knives is not a big selling point to me anymore. I'm sure it's awesome to have a knife that nice--I'd enjoy it too--but it doesn't make a PRACTICAL difference to me in EDU knives, so I don't want to pay for it.
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Yep. I still want a knife to give me a good feeling when I use it and as a result look at mostly the middle-price range knives. I resist taking guns apart too. If I do, and the same could be said with a knife, it is done at the point that I feel I have nothing to loose by taking it apart.
 
22-rimfire said:
Yep. I still want a knife to give me a good feeling when I use it and as a result look at mostly the middle-price range knives. I resist taking guns apart too. If I do, and the same could be said with a knife, it is done at the point that I feel I have nothing to loose by taking it apart.
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Right on. I was looking at my knife purchases over the last year or so, as far as I can recall :-), I've only bought 2 knives that were over $150:

* A $154 ESEE Junglas 2
* A $240 Bradford Guardian G4

Everything else was sub $150, most were sub $100. In no way would I 'knock' high-end knives or turn this in a "this vs that" type of discussion. No problem with folks getting and enjoying nicer stuff, have done it myself, and probably will again at some point. :rolleyes: But, you can get totally fantastic knives for under $100 when your focus is entirely on PRACTICAL knife usage, which is what the OP seems most concerned about. Lately, it has blown my mind at the quality of some of the relatively affordable production knives.

Two recent examples:
  • A US-made Kershaw Link in M390, purchased at Knifeworks.com for $79. This is just a fantastic EDU knife with a fantastic blade grind, premium steel, super smooth AO (I normally avoid AO, but this one is kind of winning me over that SOMETIMES AO can work).
  • A Taiwan-made Ontario Rat 1 folder in D2, purchased for $39.99. The slicing ability of this D2 blade, the materials, the strong tight lockup and perfectly centered blade, the nice even factory edge bevel that is shaving sharp--I almost can't believe how good this knife is at this price point. It truly slices as well as any folder in my entire collection. For $39.99.
 
The finest folder, IMO, that is less than the $400 mark is the Spyderco Slysz Bowie.
That is a great knife...smooth, and with excellent CTS-XHP steel. I've had two, and if I didn't carry
a Sebbie, I would carry the Bowie.
 
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