Help::: Identifying Use for Large Handmade Swedish Axe

craft said:
I think it's interesting for everyone to learn, especially me, that the axe geometry and bit size is intentional and not an error in execution
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Not everything done intentionally is a good idea.

I've rediscovered this many times.
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I am glad to be able to make a contribution, however small, to this forum. This place has been a great source of information for me especially about the North American axe tradition which I think is the most interesting, and advanced, in the world.
 
I am curious to know, among other things, just what this optimum all encompassing cutting edge to handle angle is anyway. I didn't know of its existence.
 
I don't think anyone is proposing there is one optimal angle. After purchasing this axe online, the geometry was not what I expected or have ever seen before, so I put the question out in hopes of getting some opinions, so that I could understand if this axe was going to be useful for me. I was lucky enough to get opinions from both sides, and am very happy with the response and knowledge gained. I sent the axe back in hopes that it finds an owner who is able to use it as is, and that I can use the money to buy something better suited to my current needs and skills. In the meantime I can expand my knowledge of Scandinavian wood working tools and techniques.
 
I am reading the references to the angle of the cutting edge differently then. How many times has the unqualified term, "to closed" been used? And I think these statements will lead to misunderstanding rather than the understanding sought. Who knows, it could be these misleading statements that led to the return of the axe, probably there was more to it though like personal preference or unsuitability to the task. I'm sorry that it was a dissapointment for you craft and that there was so much wasted effort in terms of unclear information initially from the seller and the physical shipping and handling of the axe across the distance back and forth, and in the end you have nothing.

E.DB.
 
Square_peg said:
The two biggest problems I see are that the weight to handle length ratio is messed up and also that the hang is way too closed - the bit is turned downward.
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I'll address each of these again since there seems to be some lack of understanding of my meaning. First let's talk about weight. At 3-3/4 pounds this is much heavier than any other of the currently available hatchets that I can find. Typical American style broad hatchets usually run in the 2 to 2-1/2 pound range. Council's new broad hatchet weighs in at 2.75 pounds but it comes on a 28" handle so it's really more of a small axe rather than a hatchet.

Mueller's carpenter's hatchet weighs in at 2-1/4 pounds - right in the same range as the American style broad hatchets. Stubai makes a wide range of hatchets in weights from as low as 400g (less than a pound) to 1200g (about 2.6 pounds). Gransfors Bruk also makes a range of carving hatchets, the largest, their Gränsfors Large Carving Axe weighs in at 1000g. Please note the very open hang of the GB Gränsfors Large Carving Axe - more on that coming up.

So from what is available out there Craft's axe is a full pound heavier than anything else on the market. All those other maker's chose not to make such a tool because there's simply no market for it. Nobody wants to use such a heavy hatchet.

Regarding the openness or closedness of the hang it will depend on the use and the user's preference. As a general starting point let's look at the USFS publication An Ax to Grind.
http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/environment...lications/fs_publications/99232823/page10.cfm
The Forest Service acknowledges circumstances where you might want a more closed hang (pulpwood axe). I myself prefer a slightly closed hang for bucking and scoring work, slightly more open for felling or splitting.
Using the FS's 'lay it on the table method' Craft's axe appears to rest on about the 1/3 mark which would seem OK. But that's only because the handle is so short. Extend the length of that handle out to a proper length for 3-3/4 pound axe (30" minimum IMO) and it would reveal a very tightly closed hang.

From personal experience using an axe at the stump I know that I like to use both the heel and toe of a carving axe when I'm working. A closed hang tucks the heel in close to the handle where it's harder to use. If you look at historical hewing tools, broad axes in particular, you will find that they are usually more open than a typical axe - again giving better access to the heel of the tool. Now let's refer back to that Gränsfors Large Carving Axe. Look at the openness of the hang. Clearly they didn't get the memo about how wonderful a tightly closed hang is.

In summation - no other maker puts such a heavy axe on such a short handle because it simply isn't practical or useful. And nobody else makes a carving hatchet with such a closed face because it puts the heel at a disadvantage. I'll grant that there may be a good use for this tool. But I can't think of any task for which this design is the best suited among all axes. Can you?
 
Ernest DuBois said:
I'm sorry that it was a dissapointment for you craft and that there was so much wasted effort in terms of unclear information initially from the seller and the physical shipping and handling of the axe across the distance back and forth, and in the end you have nothing.
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I purchased the axe from a Canadian middleman, so it wont be going back to Sweden. He states there is a demand for these axes, so I'm sure he'll have no problem finding it a home. The biggest source of ignorance is on myself, for not inquiring about better photos and intended use of the axe. To my defense, I don't own an axe with a bit as large as 3 3/4 lbs, so I had no reference with which to gauge how it would feel until I got it in my hands

I'm not an axe expert, but I agree with Square_peg in so far as a closed hang is generally less useful for me, my intended uses along with my skill set. I recognize that in the right hands, this axe might be superior at performing certain tasks. I don't have the luxury of owning highly specialized axes, nor the time or resources to get up to speed with the technique of using this axe, because spring is approaching and I have a lot of work to do.

I greatly appreciate your candid input Ernest, along with eagerly reading the discussion with you and Square_peg.
 
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Square_peg said:
From personal experience using an axe at the stump I know that I like to use both the heel and toe of a carving axe when I'm working. A closed hang tucks the heel in close to the handle where it's harder to use. If you look at historical hewing tools, broad axes in particular, you will find that they are usually more open than a typical axe - again giving better access to the heel of the tool. Now let's refer back to that Gränsfors Large Carving Axe. Look at the openness of the hang. Clearly they didn't get the memo about how wonderful a tightly closed hang is.
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This has been my experience as well, that is, needing access to the heel to appreciate the full functionality of an axe. My gripe was not with any one individual element, but the perfect storm created from the bit size, edge profile, short handle and closed hang. I don't poses the knowledge or skill to gain the versatility I needed from this axe, if such a skill exists.

The site KK gave us has a very similar axe which is described as "This cutting axe is heavy and strong and helps you quickly to cut the material. "


http://www.djarv.se/djarvenglish/yxor.asp
 
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You will probably scoff because I bring up such archaic uses for which such an axe would be suited but for me still valid if only because of the creativity and skills, durability, simplicity and directness they represent, but the cooper would be one to have an axe of this configuration, the shingle maker - something I am doing right now as a matter of fact - and of course we should not forget the wooden shoe maker working at the stump taking massive and emphatic chips from a fresh cut billet in roughing out the form of a pair of shoes. The point being more that I have no problem with taking a critical look at this axe but the critique can better be specified rather than general and sweepingly dismissive in order to have any actual value, just like I'm sure the Forest Service guidelines are referring to forestry work. Probably the standards now have changed as mostly people would be taking to such activities on a hobby basis, or anyway the scope of uses being much more limited, so the available tools to help them in their pursuit should probably reflect its consumer base. But what may be the current market commodity is only a small sampling of the diversity of axes that exist, and books, museums, and second hand markets of any kind, also give enough evidence of, let's say, keeping it close to the subject at hand, axe head and handle configurations - heavy head/short handle - that may strike us as improbable, impractical or useless.

E.DB.
 
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KingKoma said:
I dont know what the rules say about this but I have heard nothing but good things about http://www.djarv.se/ if nothing else it might be a good place to look at some nice traditional pattern axes.
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Thanks for the link. Cool that they have the site available in english too. Very short hafts on their axes, compared to what we are used to.
 
On a lighter note, I own a smaller axe from the same smith, which is by far my favorite small axe. OAL 13in, head is .7kg. I use it for everything from carving, light limbing, to maintaining trails. It's my EDC and most versatile small axe. The sheath was one of my first leather projects.

small_swedish_axe.jpg
 
30 years ago, I helped my father build our summer home. Wooden house built of logs. Similar an ax (weighing in at 4 LB's), I cut a groove along the timber for insulation and the cup (the lock for a bunch of logs)
Strokes should be as short as accurate and strong.
 
I e mailed S.Djarv Hantverk (www.djarv.se) from the link above, asking them about the axe. They say it is developed on request from norwegian woodworkers. They use it for cutting the joints when building log houses. Apparently not an uncommon pattern in Norway.
 
craft said:
On a lighter note, I own a smaller axe from the same smith, which is by far my favorite small axe. OAL 13in, head is .7kg. I use it for everything from carving, light limbing, to maintaining trails. It's my EDC and most versatile small axe. The sheath was one of my first leather projects.

small_swedish_axe.jpg
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Nice hatchet. Very useful size and shape.
 
K. King, lookie here, Hjartum heaven. A Skog axe with birch handle;


[video=youtube_share;VQ7WHENLvQM]http://youtu.be/VQ7WHENLvQM[/video]

E.DB.
 
This is a great thread. I am learning alot.

Aside from weight and angle of hang, I am a bit concerned about the edge geometry and overall thickness. From the first pictures, it looks extremely thick for a carver, and appears to be ground almost like a cold chisel.
 
Ernest DuBois said:
K. King, lookie here, Hjartum heaven. A Skog axe with birch handle;


[video=youtube_share;VQ7WHENLvQM]http://youtu.be/VQ7WHENLvQM[/video]

E.DB.
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Wow. When I first saw them I didnt think much of them but the more I look the more I can see the usefulness. Also the shape is really unique, I think, and the skill of the blacksmith is evident.
 
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