Help me understand price ceiling...

On counterfeit knives.

In China it's illegal to carry a knife, that's the law. Therefore besides kitchen knives, almost all knives made in China are for foreign consumption. I'm sure you know this.

So how does somany counterfeit knives make it here? Does the Chinese run shadow business and inport it? Recently with eBay and Amazon accepting foreign sellers on to it's platform we are seeing some of that. But from there's been alot of Americans importing this stuff and selling it as the real thing to fellow Aericans for profit. If there's no demand then no supply right? So is the Chinese solely to blame for this situation?

The same logic can be applied to Chinese manufacturers. If all US companies stop going there for their low cost then American manufacturers will be revitalized and Spyderco won't then be forced to work with China or lose market share right? So who's at fault for the decline of manufacturer in in US? China or US corporations?

The only constant is the constant of change. In today's globalized world economy, success comes with Chinese counterfeiting. There's no stopping it and it's a very complex issue with a back ground rooted in a multitude of social economic issues of society. It is what it is and already a fact of life, nothing will change it.
 
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Another note on counterfeit.

Sal I've seen your posts on American web sites as well as European ones. Americans are idealists and usually a huge chorus erupts when you post "clones hurts the hobby".

Europeans are pragmatic, most value their personal cost and benefit and I've seen threads on their boards where you had zero reponse when you post "clones hurts the hobby".

Just an observation, people's attitude towards things in life is diverse indeed.
 
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Sal, have your people been subject to “forced” technology transfers which would benefit companies like Ganzo, etc.?
 
This thread has taken a turn I didn't expect. I didn't mean to put Sal and Spydero on the spot having to defend their position on global economics. Apologies to Sal for that - really didn't mean to drag him into this. The info he's sharing is interesting and I appreciate him taking the time. And glib is fine. :)

Cursum Perficio said:
I agree with the OP saying there is value in a maker you know about and know you can rely on, and would add that with Spyderco there is a lot of value in them knowing how to design a very usable and durable tool, not just a piece of pocket jewelry.

I don't see Spyderco as too expensive, relative to other options available to me.
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Thanks for steering this back on topic. "Too expensive" is a matter of opinion. Already mentioned, but the Slysz Bowie as a mid-tech would have been far more expensive, imo. Many others as well. What are you getting for your money, and how does it look relative to other maker's products.

I think the logical conclusion of this topic will be the Paysan. My order is in and I'm more than curious to get my hands on it. Will be interested to see if there's a "too expensive for a Spydie" reaction.
 
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Sal thank you for your insights, hope I didn't offend you. We are all very passionate about our beliefs.

Getting back on topic. The interesting insight if that Chinese made Spyderco cost 1/6th the cost from Japan and other places. DO THE MATH! The implication here is holy smokes the Tenacious is perhaps the biggest money maker for Spyderco. A Tenacious is selling around $45 to $50, and an Endura or Delica with better materials and are better knives are selling for $80 to $90. That's only about 2 times the price of a Tenacious, holy profit on the Tenacious and the 8cr13mov line of knives.
 
Ganzofan said:
Sal thank you for your insights, hope I didn't offend you. We are all very passionate about our beliefs.

Getting back on topic. The interesting insight if that Chinese made Spyderco cost 1/6th the cost from Japan and other places. DO THE MATH! The implication here is holy smokes the Tenacious is perhaps the biggest money maker for Spyderco. A Tenacious is selling around $45 to $50, and an Endura or Delica with better materials and are better knives are selling for $80 to $90. That's only about 2 times the price of a Tenacious, holy profit on the Tenacious and the 8cr13mov line of knives.
Click to expand...

Why don’t you take a hint and let it go.

You’re basing your assumptions without thinking about the R&D, overhead costs, supply chain management or distribution costs that are involved to get the product to other countries and on the shelf for purchase.
The laundry lists of steps involved from start to finish would deter most people from the import/export business.
 
Ganzofan said:
On counterfeit knives.

In China it's illegal to carry a knife, that's the law. Therefore besides kitchen knives, almost all knives made in China are for foreign consumption. I'm sure you know this.

So how does somany counterfeit knives make it here? Does the Chinese run shadow business and inport it? Recently with eBay and Amazon accepting foreign sellers on to it's platform we are seeing some of that. But from there's been alot of Americans importing this stuff and selling it as the real thing to fellow Aericans for profit. If there's no demand then no supply right? So is the Chinese solely to blame for this situation?

The same logic can be applied to Chinese manufacturers. If all US companies stop going there for their low cost then American manufacturers will be revitalized and Spyderco won't then be forced to work with China or lose market share right? So who's at fault for the decline of manufacturer in in US? China or US corporations?

The only constant is the constant of change. In today's globalized world economy, success comes with Chinese counterfeiting. There's no stopping it and it's a very complex issue with a back ground rooted in a multitude of social economic issues of society. It is what it is and already a fact of life, nothing will change it.
Click to expand...
You're right about the counterfeit knives the US is the market for them and it's a social problem more than anything. I've heard of a couple surveys were people were asked about buying fake/ knock-off products and most people had no problem with it. In China the thinking on this is quite different they are very communal in thinking and so individual intellectual property is not even on the radar for them. In terms of Spyderco I love many of their knives but find the budget knives a little overpriced and so just skip them. BTW Sal thanks for sharing the Ganzo story it changes my thinking on them I would never buy their copies but would buy their original designs but I will have to re-assess. Great thread I've enjoyed reading all of it even the currency debate.
 
Ganzofan said:
Sal thank you for your insights, hope I didn't offend you. We are all very passionate about our beliefs.

Getting back on topic. The interesting insight if that Chinese made Spyderco cost 1/6th the cost from Japan and other places. DO THE MATH! The implication here is holy smokes the Tenacious is perhaps the biggest money maker for Spyderco. A Tenacious is selling around $45 to $50, and an Endura or Delica with better materials and are better knives are selling for $80 to $90. That's only about 2 times the price of a Tenacious, holy profit on the Tenacious and the 8cr13mov line of knives.
Click to expand...

Better steel maybe, but the g-10 on the tenacious still has to be imported from the USA. Frn as a material becomes cheaper the more knives that are produced. Anyway this kind of cost advantage is how China was able to maintain astronomical growth for so many years in succession.
 
Hate to burst your enthusiasm but Endura, Delica, Tenacious has all been out for a freakishly long time. Any R&D cost would have long been recovered.

We are after all talking about the R&D cost on KNIVES not spaceships.

Standard78 said:
Why don’t you take a hint and let it go.

You’re basing your assumptions without thinking about the R&D, overhead costs, supply chain management or distribution costs that are involved to get the product to other countries and on the shelf for purchase.
The laundry lists of steps involved from start to finish would deter most people from the import/export business.
Click to expand...
 
Ganzofan said:
Hate to burst your enthusiasm but Endura, Delica, Tenacious has all been out for a freakishly long time. Any R&D cost would have long been recovered.

We are after all talking about the R&D cost on KNIVES not spaceships.
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Really? In this context I thought we were talking about THEFT. Google it. :thumbsup:
 
Ganzofan said:
Hate to burst your enthusiasm but Endura, Delica, Tenacious has all been out for a freakishly long time. Any R&D cost would have long been recovered.

We are after all talking about the R&D cost on KNIVES not spaceships.
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Yeah oko_O

R&D may be covered, but what about the other costs that you chose to ignore?

Spyderco has to make a profit but I’m betting that it isn’t as extravagant as you seem to think.

Maybe they should shut down all of those plants and put a few hundred people out of work.
Would that make you happy?
 
There's a general negative sentiment toward the ever rising Spyderco price where some have coined the term "Spydergreed"

Of course you don't see too much of that on this board but plenty on YouTube comments and other mediums

Anyways, I believe the profit margins are high and you believe it's lower. But both of us are just speculating and no one really knows for sure. And now we know a basis for comparison, 1/6 the cost of Chinese made Spyderco vs others. By reverse calculation it gives us a basis to make more educated speculation on this matter.

Standard78 said:
Yeah oko_O

R&D may be covered, but what about the other costs that you chose to ignore?

Spyderco has to make a profit but I’m betting that it isn’t as extravagant as you seem to think.

Maybe they should shut down all of those plants and put a few hundred people out of work.
Would that make you happy?
Click to expand...
 
Ganzofan said:
There's a general negative sentiment toward the ever rising Spyderco price where some have coined the term "Spydergreed"

Of course you don't see too much of that on this board but plenty on YouTube comments and other mediums

Anyways, I believe the profit margins are high and you believe it's lower. But both of us are just speculating and no one really knows for sure. And now we know a basis for comparison, 1/6 the cost of Chinese made Spyderco vs others. By reverse calculation it gives us a basis to make more educated speculation on this matter.
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That agenda won't fly here.

Members who try and weasel around falsehoods and fallacies like these hang on for a while but eventually the inevitable happens.

Their errors are politely noted and they get a chance to correct their behavior. When that doesn't work for them the problem gets solved.
 
Ganzofan said:
There's a general negative sentiment toward the ever rising Spyderco price where some have coined the term "Spydergreed"

Of course you don't see too much of that on this board but plenty on YouTube comments and other mediums
Click to expand...


Spyderco knives seem reasonably priced. Never read the greed term you purport, but I have seen many knock against "Ganzotheft".

 
Ganzofan said:
There's a general negative sentiment toward the ever rising Spyderco price where some have coined the term "Spydergreed"

Of course you don't see too much of that on this board but plenty on YouTube comments and other mediums

Anyways, I believe the profit margins are high and you believe it's lower. But both of us are just speculating and no one really knows for sure. And now we know a basis for comparison, 1/6 the cost of Chinese made Spyderco vs others. By reverse calculation it gives us a basis to make more educated speculation on this matter.
Click to expand...
How does this connect to the topic of this thread? Can you please start a new topic if you want to discuss others having an issue with Spydero prices or to speculate on their profit margin, which btw is none of our business. I'm not looking for an argument. I'm asking you to please stop.
 
Warning for insults.
Yup, done with this thread. Gotta step carefully around this boardbas not to step on spydernuts.
 
Ganzofan said:
Sal thank you for your insights, hope I didn't offend you. We are all very passionate about our beliefs.

Getting back on topic. The interesting insight if that Chinese made Spyderco cost 1/6th the cost from Japan and other places. DO THE MATH! The implication here is holy smokes the Tenacious is perhaps the biggest money maker for Spyderco. A Tenacious is selling around $45 to $50, and an Endura or Delica with better materials and are better knives are selling for $80 to $90. That's only about 2 times the price of a Tenacious, holy profit on the Tenacious and the 8cr13mov line of knives.
Click to expand...
What are you saying exactly? That the Tenacious isn’t an amazing value for what it is? The fact that Spyderco may or may not have a little more margin in that line that they are robbing you?

Sal has lost money purely on the time he’s spent here discussing this with you.
 
Ganzofan said:
Yup, done with this thread. Gotta step carefully around this boardbas not to step on spydernuts.
Click to expand...
Are you kidding? It sounds like your a conspiracy theorist. Your also trolling these guys and then calling them fan boys cause they don't see eye to eye with your negative attitude about something you know nothing about. What company do you run? Ganzo? Do you have spys inside spyderco that you see the wrong doing your so adamant about?

Lol can't make this stuff up.
 
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