Help with Micarta: How to bond knife to something else safely?

SarahLadd

SarahLadd

Joined
Nov 12, 2021
Messages
320
Sup y'all,

I have a knife I'm engraving for a custom knifemaker. The knife sent is stainless with vintage 1930's Westinghouse red micarta. The material is rare and the knife is going to shows, it must be perfect. Up until this point, I have been using a craft hot glue gun to glue knives to a piece of wood, and holding the wood in the vise so the vise jaws never touch the knife. I can't use hot glue with this micarta material as it may affect the color. Can someone with experience using this material give me some ideas for how I can secure this knife safely to something that will hold fast while I engrave it but also release it when complete?

https://imgur.com/a/pdSkUw6
 
I wouldn't think hot melt glue would affect the handles.
They make a white putty-like material that you put in boiling water to soften, and GRS has a bicycle chain/Allen bolt rig that holds them pretty well, but it's expensive. If you are going to keep doing knives, it's what I recommend.
Standard pins on your engraving block may hold it sufficiently.
 
Bill DeShivs said:
I wouldn't think hot melt glue would affect the handles.
They make a white putty-like material that you put in boiling water to soften, and GRS has a bicycle chain/Allen bolt rig that holds them pretty well, but it's expensive. If you are going to keep doing knives, it's what I recommend.
Standard pins on your engraving block may hold it sufficiently.
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I inquired with the knifemaker and he thought it could potentially discolor it. Are you talking about Thermo-loc? I have some, but only about one single stick's worth. If you haven't determined it yet, I am new to engraving, and took my first class last year in march so it's been a year since I began. This is my first collaboration. I find myself intensely uncomfortable touching this knife, without knowing now what it would take to rub out any accidental scuffs. I'm supposed to be engraving it now, and instead I'm sitting here wringing my hands with anxiety. Most of what I know is what I learned from Ray Cover in class and my own learning experiences cutting on manufactured knives. I want to avoid holding the knife in the jaws themselves if I can at all.
 
Forgive me for asking, but why can't you use a small table vise? Specifically, I am talking about the kind which use the little round plastic pegs on top, for a nice gentle hold. You can find them for 10-12 bucks on amazon or ebay. They're used by jewelers and people who do small arts and crafts. What's stopping you from using one of those?
 
Well I can't tell you what specifically to do but if you're that nervous and to be honest it's an amazing looking piece you should get some other micarta examples and get your ducks in a row when the stakes aren't so high. If he first mountain you plan to climb is Everest there are going to be problems.
 
Guy McVer said:
Forgive me for asking, but why can't you use a small table vise? Specifically, I am talking about the kind which use the little round plastic pegs on top, for a nice gentle hold. You can find them for 10-12 bucks on amazon or ebay. They're used by jewelers and people who do small arts and crafts. What's stopping you from using one of those?
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The vibration and percussive force of my tool, plus it would not be likely to stand up to the hammering for inlay.. but I will check it out.
 
Danke42 said:
Well I can't tell you what specifically to do but if you're that nervous and to be honest it's an amazing looking piece you should get some other micarta examples and get your ducks in a row when the stakes aren't so high. If he first mountain you plan to climb is Everest there are going to be problems.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure that I have time. I have 20 days to have this in the knifemaker's hands completed for the Atlanta Blade Show on June 3. The design is complete and I need to get started cutting. So many people have told me I am ready to do this, that the quality of my work is more than ready for this level of craft. Impostor syndrome tends to keep myself from believing people, but given that I have dropped my day job to do this full time, I decided that it's time to listen... and try.
 
SarahLadd said:
The vibration and percussive force of my tool, plus it would not be likely to stand up to the hammering for inlay.. but I will check it out.
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Hmm. I'm going to have to butt out of this right now, because I have no idea how hot glue would be able to hold up to those things! o_O
I really don't have any experience at all with this kind of stuff. I'm sorry. :oops:
 
Guy McVer said:
Hmm. I'm going to have to butt out of this right now, because I have no idea how hot glue would be able to hold up to those things! o_O
I really don't have any experience at all with this kind of stuff. I'm sorry. :oops:
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It's all gravy baby, I don't have much experience with this kind of stuff either! It's weird how hot glue works, but it holds really well and releases relatively easily with isopropyl alcohol.
 
Woodworkers often use double-sided tape made for woodworking, for securing workpieces for cutting on table saws, template-guided routing, milling, lathe work, etc. That stuff is very strong and peels away cleanly after the work is done. I don't think it'd damage micarta at all. If the blocks used are somewhat conformable to the contours of the knife handle, then maybe a secure bond can be made with the tape between them. Just a thought...
 
I'd recommend testing on spare micarta pieces. If you have the time to test different options it could help other future projects.
 
Extended research on Micarta suggests that acetone does nothing to it. Superglue has been suggested by the knifemaker. I'm going to give superglue a go.
 
So wrap the handle with a thin layer of something. Could be paper, Glad Wrap, foil or a finger cut from a latex or nitrile glove. If you need reinforcement, then over-wrap it tightly with ribbon, thin string or the like. Then glue it. Do it right and use soft jaws in the vise and you might be able to skip the board. It depends on how rigid it needs to be. Are you engraving only the bolsters, or parts of the handle scales as well?

Thet do make machinable wax and low-temp melting casting wax that could be useful to you.
 
SarahLadd said:
Extended research on Micarta suggests that acetone does nothing to it. Superglue has been suggested by the knifemaker. I'm going to give superglue a go.
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I am no expert but I would advise against superglue, unless you want one hell of a clean up job on the knife. Hot glue would be fine, but ultimately you can do whatever you want 😂
 
I'm no expert, but can't you tape it off with something like electrical tape, then use the hot glue?
 
SarahLadd said:
So many people have told me I am ready to do this, that the quality of my work is more than ready for this level of craft. Impostor syndrome tends to keep myself from believing people,
Click to expand...

Just between you and me... a while back I read that when seeking a new position, a lady generally will not apply for the job unless she meets 100% of the requirements. A man, on the other hand, will apply if he meets 70% of the requirements, with the intention of adapting as needed. I can't say which approach is best, but plenty of times I've jumped headfirst into situations for which I was marginally qualified, and then turned up my dial to 11 so I could figure things out before anyone figured out I was a dummy. I've seen the pictures of your work, and you're no dummy.

One option for holding your work is a eutectic alloy of bismuth. It's used for fixturing oddly shaped pieces for machining. It sounds like the perfect solution to your challenge. Belmont metals lists several alloys with melting points between 117 degrees Fahrenheit and 158 degrees Fahrenheit. Prices range between $56 and $125 for a two pound ingot.

Another option I've used is to set a strangely shaped piece in plaster. Clamp on the plaster, and then break it away when you're done.

I think your best bet is get some 117 degree alloy, and you shouldn't have to worry about heat... I think. The great thing about the alloy is that it's reusable.
 
RustyIron said:
Just between you and me... a while back I read that when seeking a new position, a lady generally will not apply for the job unless she meets 100% of the requirements. A man, on the other hand, will apply if he meets 70% of the requirements, with the intention of adapting as needed. I can't say which approach is best, but plenty of times I've jumped headfirst into situations for which I was marginally qualified, and then turned up my dial to 11 so I could figure things out before anyone figured out I was a dummy. I've seen the pictures of your work, and you're no dummy.

One option for holding your work is a eutectic alloy of bismuth. It's used for fixturing oddly shaped pieces for machining. It sounds like the perfect solution to your challenge. Belmont metals lists several alloys with melting points between 117 degrees Fahrenheit and 158 degrees Fahrenheit. Prices range between $56 and $125 for a two pound ingot.

Another option I've used is to set a strangely shaped piece in plaster. Clamp on the plaster, and then break it away when you're done.

I think your best bet is get some 117 degree alloy, and you shouldn't have to worry about heat... I think. The great thing about the alloy is that it's reusable.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the vote of confidence :) I have a lot of people that believe in me. I am going to do my very, very best.

I'm reverse engineering the profile of this knife and making 3d printed PLA jaws for my vise to hold it. A little bit of trial and error will get me there. The printing is going to take some time, a day at least.
 
SarahLadd said:
I'm going to give superglue a go.
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I have no experience in these matters, but i do a lot of modelling, and woodworkers glue can be unglued with warm to hot water when a mistake is made. I make plenty of mistakes and this has always worked for me. I don't know about super glue, can be tricky when it cures. :)
 
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