Help with my first Shirogorov knife...

DrtyHarry

DrtyHarry

Joined
Jul 14, 2010
Messages
367
I finally decided to buy my very first Shiro. However, the particular one I have been looking for has jumped a bit in price. I noticed that they make the same knife with Cronidur 30 steel as well as M390. But the Cronidur 30 version is $250 cheaper. I really don't know much about Cronidur 30 steel, I do know that Henkels uses it though on some of their knives. Do you think spending an extra $250 for M390 is worth it? I am very familiar with M390...it's one of my all time favorite steels. Thoughts? THANKS!!


Harry
 
I wouldn't spend that much to upgrade from 8cr13mov to m390 even. I'd get the cronidur 30 all day long.
 
I don't have any experience with either of these steels, but for a $250 price bump, I better be able to cut through diamonds like butter. I can see a $20 or so for improved steel but never that much
 
I recently got one in s90v and I love it. Some guys highly recommend the m390 or Elmax over the other steel choices but I'm not sure the difference between the steel types justifies the 250 increase. Shirogorov does an excellent job on their ffg and the heat treat seems spot on. Cronidur 30 is unknown to me so I can't help you there, I'm sure a quick search would get you some more info.

As far as the knives go I can highly recommend it, really enjoying mine.

Good luck on your first shiro.
 
Shirogorov is after all Shirogorov!!! It's not like they're going to risk the premium they command for their knives by making one out of crappy steel.

People recognize and demand m390, so Shiro provides it. At a premium. The Cronidur 30 is lesser known, but probably easier and easier for them to source and they're willing to stake their name on its performance. I'd trust them and save myself $250.

Worst case scenario: You hate the steel. Sell the knife for very nearly what you paid and then buy the m390.

Best case scenario: You love it and then spend the $250 you saved on sharpening service!
 
I'm torn...I have a few knives in M390 and I really do love the edge retension, it doesn't rust, it's really a great steel. I'm specifically looking at the 111 model in CF with the MRBS. Yes, for about $250 cheaper...I can get the same knife in Cronidur 30 instead of M390. I have never spent this much on a knife before. I did read up a little on the steel...some say there is a great difference between the two. Others really can't tell. I never heard of this steal until today. Ugh...going nuts trying to figure it out. I'd hate to make a mistake and regret it.
 
I did make one mistake though....the $250 difference is not just in the steel. Instead of CF, the scales are G10 as well. So it does make a bigger difference. I'm going to hold my breath and go with the CF and the M390. Wife left so I really can only hang myself for doing so, she can't do it. lol Thanks for the info fellas.



Harry
 
How big are your stones? That is, are you confident in your sharpening skills?

IMO, the biggest deciding factor when it comes to choosing steel is one's sharpening skills. To be able to sufficiently sharpen super steel on your own.. cause it'll be pretty disappointing getting that expensive steel only to discover while it looks and feels nice, it's dull and won't sharpen for the life of you.

Or expect to pay to have someone sharpen it and be very frugal in its use and what to cut, since sharpening cost the bucks

Or buy it for practice.

A person who can handle the steel will get more out of it. Conversely, a person not so sure about ones skill will likely get more out of the standard stuff.
 
The only negative that I think I've heard about Cronidur was that it would scratch easier than some other premium steels. I am not sure though if that makes much sense. That would be highly subjective and also depend of the type of the finish. But anyway considering your preference and the the handle material I do not think you ever regret your choice.
 
Yes, the CF makes a bigger difference. Now you're talking about a completely different variant rather than just a different steel. For my dollars, it still isn't worth the money, but then, I don't like carbon fiber.

It's an expensive knife. Get the one you want.
 
Thanks again guys. I do OK sharpening my own stuff...my friend does a better job than me, and he always begs me to come over and sharpen my knives for me. He has a fetish doing it. I have an edge pro but I usually use my sharpmaker most of the time because it's just a lot easier and I have it set up in my kitchen all ready. I did buy the diamond rods. I have several knives in S90V and S110V that I use a lot and am able to get a hair popping edge with them. I do finish off with a little leather. I found S110V to be a bit more difficult to sharpen...but I found a few strokes with the diamond stones every so often and a strope helps keep the edge. If I let it go...than I have to spend more time getting the edge back. Thank God for my friend who does most of it for me...I'm not that good to begin with, but I hold my own. S30V is really easy for me to work with, so is 154...

As for CF...I really wish I could find the 111 with titanium scales and some kind of G10 or CF inserts. The 95 model comes like that, but those things are fetching over $2k. Won't spend that much on an EDC and I refuse to continue to buy any more knives that go straight into a display case because I'm worried about damaging them. Only user blades, no more Queens! :)



Harry
 
Going to say that most of the time for most people the steel will not make much difference. Some steels take more effort to keep clean and sharpen. If you are going to get a Shiro - get the one with steel you are most familiar with. I've sharpened M390 and S90v and Emax (all Shiros) and honestly cant say I 'feel' that much difference between in both cutting tasks or edge retention.

I understand that Shirogorov heat treat their own steel and so far I only saw 1 video where this Russian guy does some hard use testing on Elmax Shiro and it stays in 'working edge' condition. Non of what I say is scientific.

There is also not much difference, if any in price between carbon and g10.

Go for the knife that speaks to you and use it for EDC.
 
I did...since I have no clue how that other steel performs and since I am familiar with M390, I decided to take the M390 CF path. Yeah...it was about $250 more over the Cronidur 30 / G10 version. Spoke to some of the guys that own multiple Shiros, and they said that the M390 will hold a better value over the Cronidur 30 variant. I looked around and found the EXACT same knife on Arizona available for almost DOUBLE the price that I am paying. This here is the exact knife. I know Arizona always asks for a premium...but hey, I don't think I'm ever going to spend this kind of money again on a knife. Maybe on a smaller Shiro later on down the line. It really is a beautiful looking knife...




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T.L.E. Sharp said:
It's an expensive knife. Get the one you want.
Click to expand...

I think T.L.E. Sharp nailed it.

It may be $250 more for what some may consider a minor, or even inconsequential, detail but it really comes down to how you perceive the value.

All that being said, have you handled a 111 before? Truly a superb knife but I hope you don't mind carrying a sizeable blade, because they are quite large
 
I handled a Hati before and it was a little on the small size. I have a ZT 0392WC, and that is also very much on the small size. I carried a Microtech SOCOM and alternated with a Spyderco Millie for a dozen years, and found them to be better suited for me....each having a 4" blade. The 111 has a blade a fraction over 4" so I think it will be a good fit. I have always preferred to carry a 4" as well as a smaller blade at the same time. My backup blade is usually a PM2. I saw many pics and videos of the 111, I think I'll be happy. I'll know in 2 days! :-)


Harry
 
Congratulations! I probably would have gone the same route and bought the one I really wanted. That's a beautiful looking knife, good choice!
 
Thanks fellas, I also really to like tactical knives....so this fills a lot of my concerns. Trying to see if I can buy an extra clip for it so I can coat it in black to better conceal. I suppose I should wait until it arrives tmro... lol


Harry
 
DrtyHarry said:
I did...since I have no clue how that other steel performs and since I am familiar with M390, I decided to take the M390 CF path. ..*snip*
Click to expand...

Good decision !
The M390 and CF is well worth the extra dough on a knife such as this.
 
Ken44 said:
Good decision !
The M390 and CF is well worth the extra dough on a knife such as this.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I was looking around and digging a little further, and found that this particular knife is also available is S90V. I have some knives in S90V and I really do like it. I also have like I said several knives using M390. And to be totally honest...I really can't tell much of a difference between the two. The S90V feels to have a grittyier edge....like having micro teeth and the M390 feels like it has a much smoother edge. One thing I have noticed between the two steels is that sharpening the S90V takes a LOT more work for some reason, the M390 also takes work....but it doesn't take me as long. I'm guessing it has something to do with the composition of the metal....I don't know much about all the science behind some of these exotic steels. I know S90V has been around for ever...and M390 has of recent hit the knife scene.

I take it that the bigger difference comes down to how these things have been heat treated. I don't know what the RW hardness is of each...so I would really have a hard time picking between M390 and S90V. Even though some distributors sell the same knife at the same price....the dealer I got mine from only had this knife in M390 and Cronidur 30. No S90V...and the Cronidur 30 was in G10 not CF. I don't think I'll have any issues with M390! :)



Harry
 
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