Hen & Rooster 300 Savage Canoe

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rprocter

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although not strictly a "Traditional", many here are familiar with the Bertran knives made from 1975-80 when owned by AG Russell.
here are pics(sorry, poor quality/snowing) of a Bertram Hen & Rooster 300 Savage Canoe, CM-9, serial #526, from 1979; and a another knife which i have just recently seen appear on ebay:

2009-03-22002.jpg

2009-03-22003.jpg

2009-03-22004.jpg



as for difference in markings, the clone has Solingen/Germany under the logo on the mark side and Bertram/Cutlery/Rostrei/109 on the pile side.
mimicry abounds in the knife world, but this is one i had not seen previously, so i bought this clone ($13.50) and thought others might be interested to have a look.
roland
 
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Holy Cow!! If you didn't have those two side by side I bet 9 out of 10 Knife Knuts wouldn't be quick enough (or do enough research) to able to tell the difference.

The only things (as a slippie newbie) that I see are the difference in the Pull and the finish on the scales.

Any idea who made the new one? Could it be an authorized Copy somehow?
 
the new one is made by Bertram Cutlery, who own the rights to the H'nR trademark. whether they also own the rights to copy AGR's 300 Savage Canoe, i do not know. (AGR must know, but i know that he finds the current state of knives bearing this trademark to be personally upsetting, so i have not emailed him about this one)
a knife can be stamped with a city or country name, but that does not necessarily mean that the knife was made in that place, but merely that the company is registered in that place. so i do not know where this knife was made, but at the very low selling price, i would suggest China, which is where many of current H'nRs are made. that said, manufacturers in China are capable of turning out well made knives. note the verb: "capable" is not the same as "do".
roland
 
I like the concept and they sure did knock if off pretty good. What are the dimensions?
 
Both knives are identical in dimensions and shape. closed: 3 3/16", blade: 2 1/4". both have crisp 1/2 stops.
the original can still be purchased new from AGR website, $125.
roland
 
rprocter said:
Both knives are identical in dimensions and shape. closed: 3 3/16", blade: 2 1/4". both have crisp 1/2 stops.
the original can still be purchased new from AGR website, $125.
roland
Click to expand...

That's good info, thanks:thumbup:
 
rprocter,

I too have three of those "original" Hen and Roosters in .300 Savage from AG Russell. The first two are like the one you showed, and the third one has a bit more scrolling on the blade. I really like them! :thumbup: A wonderful built knife!

Just like being hooked on "slippies", I collected Savage 99's.

I can't believe the "Knockoffs" that are appearing! :thumbdn:

Kent
 
rprocter said:
the new one is made by Bertram Cutlery, who own the rights to the H'nR trademark. whether they also own the rights to copy AGR's 300 Savage Canoe, i do not know. (AGR must know, but i know that he finds the current state of knives bearing this trademark to be personally upsetting, so i have not emailed him about this one)
a knife can be stamped with a city or country name, but that does not necessarily mean that the knife was made in that place, but merely that the company is registered in that place. so i do not know where this knife was made, but at the very low selling price, i would suggest China, which is where many of current H'nRs are made. that said, manufacturers in China are capable of turning out well made knives. note the verb: "capable" is not the same as "do".
roland
Click to expand...

I wonder if Jim Frost knows that that design is mine and does not belong to H&R, or if he cares?

I am really surprised, this is the kind of behavior you would expect of Jim Parker or Stewart Taylor. I wonder if Mr. Frost was aware that this is a collectable that he has countfieted? Or if he cares?
 
Did Frost ever have anything but a reputation for stealing someone else's designs?
 
Moving to "Feedback" since this slope is getting slippery...
 
A friend of mine got me some Frost slipjoints. One, a doctors knife, is pretty nice, and I really like it. However, it is marked Solingen Germany on the reverse of the Frost, while at the top of the blade it is marked Pakistan ;).

Personally, just based on performance, I would like to get AG's knife.
 
rycen said:
Did Frost ever have anything but a reputation for stealing someone else's designs?
Click to expand...

Rycen,

I am pretty sensitive to this and I have not known this to be the case. Frost has always been pretty straight up. When he caught Jim Parker doing bad he dumped him and took the NKC&DA and museum away from him.

I suspect that one of his employees did this without a thought as to who owned the design or that the design was a collectable knife.
 
Blues, i did not intend this to be a "slippery slope" post. just a 'heads up' to the ebay cruisers, as this is very close mimicry and as best i know, has just started showing up.
roland
 
A. G. Russell
First no disrespect intended (sorry if you took it that way).Is this Jim Frost the same Jim Frost that sells the dollar a knife deals?
 
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