Here is a law many do not know about...

[Ron Kosakowski]

Well, I found out about a year or so ago that Balisongs cannot be sent through the US post office. One of my students who is a weapons oriented attorney, told me about this. He said Spyderco had a problem with that and got into deep s^*t over it. I just so happen to be a Filipino weapons dealer and started off sending my Balisongs to folks all over the US and elsewhere until I got the word. I do not have the money as of yet like Spyderco does to send in attorneys to fight such idiotic laws. So I use other legal resources now of course.

I personally feel Balisong laws are stupid anyway. It takes a certain amount of knowledge and skill to use a Balisong. There are quite a few legal carry knives out there today that are much faster to get to. There are some real idiots out there who make the laws we have to follow, or else! :jerkit:

Ron Kosakowski
http://www.SPAM.com

 

[R.W.Clark]

Please provide legal statute and or official policy in regards to this matter from the USPS

Statements without supporting facts are purely gossip and serve no purpose other then creatiing confusion, and quite possible provides you with the opertunity to addvertise your knife dealership without paying the proper and requisted fee for doing so.:thumbdn:

 

[MORIMOTOM]

yes, until a reliable source is quoted or linked, this is just an odd form of spam.

 

[tyr_shadowblade]

Some have interpreted the USPS prohibition on "switchblade" knives to include balisongs and gravity knives as well. It is alluded to but not clearly defined. Laws are often purposefully vague so as to be interpreted at the whim of a prosecutor or judge.

 

[tom19176]

Sal is a member here and should chime in I hope, but he is right. I had the link on one of my post about a year ago. Syderco was forced to pay a $400,000 fine ( if my memory is correct) and had to tell its customers that the knives were to be returned ( letter sent only). There were charges realting to both a Customs violation and a US POstal violation. The guilty plea was for the Postal one. I will see if I can find the link but the story is real. The story was in the balisong section first if I remember.

 

[tom19176]

here you go....http://lawfuel.com/show-release.asp?ID=11640 and http://spyderco.com/news/news.php The second link did work in the past, but does not now...see if one of you can get the statement to show....

 

[Chris Meyer]

What a sorry state our country is in. Two hundred and thirty-two years ago our founding fathers fought a revolution to throw off one tyrannical government. Today, with this Spyderco case, we see yet another example of how we’ve squandered the freedom we were given. Here we have some nameless, unelected, bureaucrat issuing an erroneous ruling that costs a company nearly half a million dollars. Not only does he get away with it, the victim company finds it cheaper, or more expedient, to plead guilty rather than to try to fight the government. A sorry state indeed…


By the way, nice to see you on the forum Ron. How is the school going?

 

[Ron Kosakowski]

What a sorry state our country is in. Two hundred and thirty-two years ago our founding fathers fought a revolution to throw off one tyrannical government. Today, with this Spyderco case, we see yet another example of how we’ve squandered the freedom we were given. Here we have some nameless, unelected, bureaucrat issuing an erroneous ruling that costs a company nearly half a million dollars. Not only does he get away with it, the victim company finds it cheaper, or more expedient, to plead guilty rather than to try to fight the government. A sorry state indeed…


By the way, nice to see you on the forum Ron. How is the school going?

I can agree with you there. First off, how are we supposed to know this type of law. Its not like they hand you a list of what you cannot send in the PO. They ask if there is anything liquid, explosive or flammable or something like that when you send a package. I cannot see how they were legally able to nail Spyderco like that.

And you are correct in saying why did they just give in. Maybe they have THAT much money to play with Is a fine a tax write off that they needed desperately? I know this type of law will never be re-looked at because of bigger problems. The right to bear arms is depleting little by little. It just seems like the polititions do stupid stuff to make it hard to get automatics and Balisongs not realizing people will get them one way or another if that is what they want. Man, I can sit here all day and complain about these various stupid laws!

Chris, the school is holding together by threads due to this economic mess the country is in but it is holding. I have been through 2 or 3 of these so called recessions since I opened in the 80's. I will never get rich doing martial arts and collecting weapons but I will always be happy!

Good to see you on here also man!

Ron Kosakowski
(( Advertising is not allowed by Registered users. ))

 

[Chris Meyer]

Ron, as they say, "find a job you love and you'll never have to work a day in your life." I'm glad you like your job, as you certainly do it well (and with a good bit of pain for your demonstration "dummies" ).

Unfortunately for me, Chipman decided it would be a good idea to take me down unexpectedly during a training exercise a few years ago. I ended up with a couple of herniated discs in my back and haven't been able to work out since. Still, I guess I've got the last laugh (so far), as he's falling apart faster than me.

 

[R.W.Clark]

Rant mode on

I personally would like to take a minute to thank Homeland Security and ICE for their hard work and dedication. It would have been all to easy for ICE to actually do their job and actually go after the real dangerous crimes. Instead they kept their focus (no doubt modeling after the BATFE) and staged a lengthy investigation against an oh so vile item. I am sure that countless mothers will be able to sleep at night now, secure in the knowledge that their sweet little wanna be street rat, mall ninja and chair borne commando children will be kept safe from countless cuts on the backs of their hands. I mean after all we all know just how often these evil butterflys of death are used in homicidile rages. Well, just ignore the fact that the most dangerous knife in the US (per crime stats, but I don't think ICE knows what those are) is a 3" kitchen paring knife.

I am so glad that ICE is not working this hard on closing our borders or deporting countless illegal alien murderers and rapests who are now roaming our streets. After all, it would be cruel for all those criminals to actually fear that they might get caught. That type of mental distress might actually interfear with the performance of their next crime, and that would just not be nice.

And another ataboy to ICE for sending two of your own border agents to 20 yrs hard time in the Federal lockup. After all, they were not busting companies for breaking a law that was never intended for the item in question anyhow. They were arresting an illegal alien drug smuggler. That will teach those pecky border agents to keep away from the border and go back to harrassing US Citizens like any good border agent should.

And good job to Spyderco. Instead of standing up and fighting, you rolled over and took it. You could have done what other knife companies (like Kershaw) do. You could have decided to fight not only for your own business but for all businesses and maybe protected the rights of your customers. Instead you laid down and took it like men. You must have had lunch with the Smith and Wesson Execs to help you with that decision.

Rant off

I think I will give Spyderco the same treatment I gave S&W when they rolled over to the gun banners. I will stop buying Spyderco products and encourage others to do the same. If a company is not willing to stand on principle and at least try to fight for their rights and the rights of their customers, then that is not a company that should get my money.

Ron

 

[tyr_shadowblade]

I can agree with you there. First off, how are we supposed to know this type of law. Its not like they hand you a list of what you cannot send in the PO.

There are LOTS of "secret laws" on the books that are selectively prosecuted. It's like back in Roman times when the LAW was posted on pillars at a central point in the city where all citizens could read them. Then came Caligula, who whimsically decided to create a bunch of new laws -- most of which were punishable by torture or execution. Knowing he was required to post these laws on the pillars, he had them affixed to the very top of the 20 foot pillars were no-one could read them without a ladder.

MANY "secret laws" are buried in obscure tomes that even the legislators do not comprehend (i.e. U.S. Tax Code); and others are either deliberately vague or willfully misinterpreted. Then there are the antiquated "Blue Laws" that were never officially repealed, thus remaining prosecutable.

"Ignorance of the Law is no excuse." Sure . . . let me tell you about the "Law." Some folks refer to it as "The politician's One-Way Law" -- an elitist code of conduct that the ruling class is exempt from, but which is used as a weapon what with to grind the underclasses. "How much Justice can you afford?"

 

[Ron Kosakowski]

Rant mode on

I personally would like to take a minute to thank Homeland Security and ICE for their hard work and dedication. It would have been all to easy for ICE to actually do their job and actually go after the real dangerous crimes. Instead they kept their focus (no doubt modeling after the BATFE) and staged a lengthy investigation against an oh so vile item. I am sure that countless mothers will be able to sleep at night now, secure in the knowledge that their sweet little wanna be street rat, mall ninja and chair borne commando children will be kept safe from countless cuts on the backs of their hands. I mean after all we all know just how often these evil butterflys of death are used in homicidile rages. Well, just ignore the fact that the most dangerous knife in the US (per crime stats, but I don't think ICE knows what those are) is a 3" kitchen paring knife.

I am so glad that ICE is not working this hard on closing our borders or deporting countless illegal alien murderers and rapests who are now roaming our streets. After all, it would be cruel for all those criminals to actually fear that they might get caught. That type of mental distress might actually interfear with the performance of their next crime, and that would just not be nice.

And another ataboy to ICE for sending two of your own border agents to 20 yrs hard time in the Federal lockup. After all, they were not busting companies for breaking a law that was never intended for the item in question anyhow. They were arresting an illegal alien drug smuggler. That will teach those pecky border agents to keep away from the border and go back to harrassing US Citizens like any good border agent should.

And good job to Spyderco. Instead of standing up and fighting, you rolled over and took it. You could have done what other knife companies (like Kershaw) do. You could have decided to fight not only for your own business but for all businesses and maybe protected the rights of your customers. Instead you laid down and took it like men. You must have had lunch with the Smith and Wesson Execs to help you with that decision.

Rant off

I think I will give Spyderco the same treatment I gave S&W when they rolled over to the gun banners. I will stop buying Spyderco products and encourage others to do the same. If a company is not willing to stand on principle and at least try to fight for their rights and the rights of their customers, then that is not a company that should get my money.

Ron

I agree here but like I asked before...is a fine a tax write off. NOT that it is an excuse to go against our right to bear arms or our freedom in general.

On the other hand, Spyderco's Balisongs are not culturally correct. The handles are used traditionally as part of the weapon and the handles on a Spyderco Balisong, just like the Microtech Balisong is as usless as tits on a bull. I like their folders, I have quite a few but my personal carry has been replaced with the Cold Steel Schimitar. So my boycott started early!


Ron Kosakowski

(( Are you playing games with us or are you just not paying attention? ))

 

[Ron Kosakowski]

There are LOTS of "secret laws" on the books that are selectively prosecuted. It's like back in Roman times when the LAW was posted on pillars at a central point in the city where all citizens could read them. Then came Caligula, who whimsically decided to create a bunch of new laws -- most of which were punishable by torture or execution. Knowing he was required to post these laws on the pillars, he had them affixed to the very top of the 20 foot pillars were no-one could read them without a ladder.

MANY "secret laws" are buried in obscure tomes that even the legislators do not comprehend (i.e. U.S. Tax Code); and others are either deliberately vague or willfully misinterpreted. Then there are the antiquated "Blue Laws" that were never officially repealed, thus remaining prosecutable.

"Ignorance of the Law is no excuse." Sure . . . let me tell you about the "Law." Some folks refer to it as "The politician's One-Way Law" -- an elitist code of conduct that the ruling class is exempt from, but which is used as a weapon what with to grind the underclasses. "How much Justice can you afford?"

And ya wonder why people freak out and go on killing sprees due to the justice system. Not that I am going to any time soon!


Ron Kosakowski

(( Third warning: Ignorance of the Law is no excuse. Especially when it has been explained to you. ))

 

[tom19176]

Ron, Fines are not tax deductable, they can only decease the profits of a company. Once you have plead guilty to a charge like this all your future shipments are on a stop and search list with Customs. This was bad all around for the company. If they used UPS instead of USPS they would have avioded the violation of one law and would have had a much better chance of fighting the other. He plead guilty because he made a few wrong buisness choices and violated the law ( a BS law , but the law). I wish he had fought it, but he did not.

In the "auots for sale " section on this site most of the sellers say they will use USPS and provide tracking data, and ask for payment in a USPS money order.....the sellers might as well plead guilty now since they have made an air tight case against themselves.....I do wish the Mods would tell them to follow the law in their ads here.....

 

[mp510]

Ron, Fines are not tax deductable, they can only decease the profits of a company. Once you have plead guilty to a charge like this all your future shipments are on a stop and search list with Customs. This was bad all around for the company. If they used UPS instead of USPS they would have avioded the violation of one law and would have had a much better chance of fighting the other. He plead guilty because he made a few wrong buisness choices and violated the law ( a BS law , but the law). I wish he had fought it, but he did not.

In the "auots for sale " section on this site most of the sellers say they will use USPS and provide tracking data, and ask for payment in a USPS money order.....the sellers might as well plead guilty now since they have made an air tight case against themselves.....I do wish the Mods would tell them to follow the law in their ads here.....

The forums description instructs them to follow the law, yet they choose to refuse to whether be it out of arrogance or ignorance.

Automatic Knife Sales must follow all Federal, State, & Local laws.

 

[zenheretic]

And good job to Spyderco. Instead of standing up and fighting, you rolled over and took it. You could have done what other knife companies (like Kershaw) do. You could have decided to fight not only for your own business but for all businesses and maybe protected the rights of your customers. Instead you laid down and took it like men. You must have had lunch with the Smith and Wesson Execs to help you with that decision.

Rant off

I think I will give Spyderco the same treatment I gave S&W when they rolled over to the gun banners. I will stop buying Spyderco products and encourage others to do the same. If a company is not willing to stand on principle and at least try to fight for their rights and the rights of their customers, then that is not a company that should get my money.

Ron

So at what point should Spyderco have gone to be "a man" in your eyes? Should they spend every last dollar and go bankrupt and stll found guilty? Would that be sufficient for you?

 

[R.W.Clark]

Every last dollar? Your kidding me right?

A good defense would have cost more than what they paid, but not even close to enough to cause any real pain for the company.

I have worked with knife companies who fought import/export laws and won. Did not cost them "every last dollar".

Get real.

 

[zenheretic]

Every last dollar? Your kidding me right?

A good defense would have cost more than what they paid, but not even close to enough to cause any real pain for the company.

I have worked with knife companies who fought import/export laws and won. Did not cost them "every last dollar".

Get real.

So you are an expert on what they can afford? Get real.

 

[oli]

I think I will give Spyderco the same treatment I gave S&W when they rolled over to the gun banners. I will stop buying Spyderco products and encourage others to do the same. If a company is not willing to stand on principle and at least try to fight for their rights and the rights of their customers, then that is not a company that should get my money.

Ron

I nominate you to lead the fight. Tell your senators that you don't like the law and that you will not give the IRS anymore money to pay those senators salaries unless the law is immediately changed. Let the IRS know about this position you are taking with your senators. Do you want to stand on principle or are you going to roll over? The "bad" guy here is the law and those that created the law.

 

[R.W.Clark]

You guys are funny, keep it up I need a good laugh.

If you had any idea of the amount of time I spend in court on cases just like this or if you had any clue as to the amount of energy I spend fighting knife laws, you would know just how silly your comments are.