HEST Folder Warranty -Your Thoughts

R.A.T.

R.A.T.

Randall's Adventure & Training
Joined
Feb 4, 2004
Messages
10,400
Mike and I are going to be out of pocket until around the 16th but I wanted to start this discussion now. It is obvious we cannot offer a no-questions-asked warranty on the folder since it has moving parts, locks wear, locks can't be beaten on, etc. However we want you guys to help us write the warranty on the folder since the people here have more knowledge, time in the field using knives and experience than anyone we know of.

So, use this thread to hash out a warranty for the HEST folder. What do you want to see that's fair to the company as well as generous to you, the user. We consider the success of ESEE grounded to the members here on Bladeforums - always have. And while other companies may think this is crazy to allow the users and buyers to write the warranty, we trust in your judgement to help direct our own company in the right direction.

Feel free to offer up your opinions and suggestions. All we ask is this not become a debate or fight because of someone's idea that may be posted up.

Thanks,

Jeff
 
As a side note to the mods, I'd rather not "sticky" this since that seems to lessen the exposure. We would like to keep this up in the main page though so everyone gets to put in their 2 cents and be part of the community forming this warranty.
 
There definetly should be different warranty because of the reasons you mentioned. People shouldn't abuse the warranty for doing silly not neccesary tasks with the blade. It's usually easier to break a folder. But when/if the knife breaks its hard to make any proof how it happened so it's pretty difficult to make any idea... Most companies jsut ignore that and make one year warranty which is not even well supported. Big thumbs up for your care, this is great way to go and i hope someone else will come up with good idea and the results will be even better :)
 
Warranty Information
All ESSE/HEST products are guaranteed against defects in workmanship and materials for the life of the original purchaser. This guarantee is voided (as determined by ESSE/HEST ) by misuse, abuse, improper maintenance, or alterations of the product and does not cover any normal wear or tear that might occur. Using your ESSE/HEST folding blade knife for any purpose other than cutting or puncturing is considered abuse and may void your warranty.

Examples of Non-Warranted items:
Rusted/spotted/stained blades or handles (coated or not), broken or bent knife tips, worn tool components, dull/chipped knife blades, scratched blade/tool coatings, worn/loose Kraton slabs, sheaths and pouches (if brand new sheaths are determined to be defective they are replaced separately from the knife/tool), and broken/lost thumb studs.

Broken Blades:
In the unlikely case that your knife blade breaks, we will do a hardness test on it to see if it is within specs and therefore eligible for replacement.


Costs:
ESSE/HEST Will pre-determine the cost of repair or replacement of non-warranted items and communicate the estimated cost to the customer before any work is performed.


When returning product for warranty/replacement
please do the following:
Include a brief note inside your package stating what you are returning, the claimed defect and how it failed. Also, include inside the package, your name, address, and a daytime phone number or email address to reach you in case we have any questions.
 
UDT-SEAL said:
Warranty Information
All ESSE/HEST products are guaranteed against defects in workmanship and materials for the life of the original purchaser. This guarantee is voided (as determined by ESSE/HEST ) by misuse, abuse, improper maintenance, or alterations of the product and does not cover any normal wear or tear that might occur. Using your ESSE/HEST folding blade knife for any purpose other than cutting or puncturing is considered abuse and may void your warranty.

Examples of Non-Warranted items:
Rusted/spotted/stained blades or handles (coated or not), broken or bent knife tips, worn tool components, dull/chipped knife blades, scratched blade/tool coatings, worn/loose Kraton slabs, sheaths and pouches (if brand new sheaths are determined to be defective they are replaced separately from the knife/tool), and broken/lost thumb studs.

Broken Blades:
In the unlikely case that your knife blade breaks, we will do a hardness test on it to see if it is within specs and therefore eligible for replacement.


Costs:
ESSE/HEST Will pre-determine the cost of repair or replacement of non-warranted items and communicate the estimated cost to the customer before any work is performed.


When returning product for warranty/replacement
please do the following:
Include a brief note inside your package stating what you are returning, the claimed defect and how it failed. Also, include inside the package, your name, address, and a daytime phone number or email address to reach you in case we have any questions.
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I'd say the above looks good. Just use the common practice of most knife companies--go above and beyond the written warranty when deemed appropriate, but keep the letter of the warranty as above so that jerkwads can't abuse it and walk all over you. It's worked well for companies like Buck.
 
I can see the warranty being logistically difficult since the manufacturer is in a different continent. Will you be doing simple repairs stateside or sending them out? It would be cool if you stocked a number of typical wear items so if someone needed to order pivot bushings or a new clip or something like that, they could be shipped right out. I don't think anyone has a problem ordering these kinds of items, they are parts that fail or wear out over time. Or if the user isn't comfortable replacing these things, assess a fee for repair like the UDT-SEAL put together up top.
 
We are indeed looking at doing a repair shop in the USA with spare parts, etc.
 
I wouldn't want to be in your shoes figuring out best warranty, but i have to say you proved yet again that ESEE is the company far above the rest with the best customers service...and you are crazy as shit:)
 
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I think you should look to the Strider warranty, since this knife has many similarities. Striders cost about twice as much, maybe they build the warranty into the price, don't know since I don't own a Strider.

Then there is Mantis Knives which offers a no questions asked warranty that follows the knife. You can return any Mantis knife whether you are the original owner or not, and they will fix or replace for you.
Without getting into a Mantis Knives flame war here, that's a hell of a warranty.

I will be interested to see what you come up with, it will be a factor in my purchasing the knife or not.
 
WoodenChicken said:
I think you should look to the Strider warranty, since this knife has many similarities. Striders cost about twice as much, maybe they build the warranty into the price, don't know since I don't own a Strider.
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I agree with that one. I think that would be the best solution that would make everyone happy.
 
I agree folders are more delicate then fixed blades and should be treated differently by both the manufacturer and consumer, however we need to weigh this against the price tag associated with this particular knife. On one had I can see how you don't want a million warranty claims because people are using them for battoning wood, but on the other hand for a $200 (CAN) folder I would expect a replacement thumb stud/pocket clip/screw if it happened to fail. This is in line with many other company's today.

Normal wear and tear is obviously not something that can be under warranty however abnormal wear and tear caused by defects should. What I mean by that is best expressed by an example

I currently have a folder by a company I won't name. It's been used for 3 years lightly for little more then opening packages. About a year ago I noticed a uneven wear pattern (left side pretty much wore off entirely while right side remains intact) by the lock caused by slightly more friction on one side of the blade. This was the part of the lock that keeps the knife CLOSED. Neither I nor the company can comprehend how this could have happened but they have refused to fix it.

I guess what I'm getting at is that wear and tear are one thing. Factory defects that are not immediately visible and expedite wear and tear are another. Most company's don't seem to differentiate.

As my last most important note I hope when writing the final warranty you keep in mine what most people WILL do, and not what a few people COULD do. I believe thats the most fair way in the end.

I would just like to say thanks for asking and reading my input. Its CS like this that make you guys stand out. :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
 
I am happy with the Boiler Plate Warranty because I do not abuse my tools, and if I ever were to do that, I certainly would not be claiming a fix under warranty - this is downright dishonest.

BUT I would like the option to purchase spares so that I can fix it myself - why? Shipping to me will be around US$30 when it arrives and even though I do not expect any defects, you never know, so if I can fix it by replacing something small that can be sent by post for a couple of bucks, I am happy.

I would even like the option to replace the blade for example - paid for of course.

Somewhat like DELL computers.
 
Many good things have here been said.

mat_890 said:
My last most important note I hope when writing the final warranty you keep in mine what most people WILL do, and not what a few people COULD do. I believe thats the most fair way in the end.
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One thing I will add is, remember how this knife is advertised. This is named a Hostile Environment Survival Tool. Judging by the way this knife is being advertised, I'd expect it to be pretty durable, and to be capable of whatever I needed in a survival situation. With a knife like that, I would not predict the need to be gentle. Obviously, you guys don't want to be loaded down with moron requests, but there are those of us who are hard users who expect the knives we buy to be backed by the people who make them. I carry a Strider most of the time, because they warranty their knife pretty much regardless. Obviously, at your price point, I don't expect exactly the same thing, but I'd like to think I can expect something comparable. I will be in line for one of these bad boys, and I trust you guys to do what's right by us, AND by you. If I hurt mine, I'll be sure to tell you why, and leave it in your hands as to whether or not you're willing to cover me.

I think a decent rubric has already been laid out here, so I don't have much else to write.

You guys rock, and we love you. :thumbup::thumbup::D:thumbup::thumbup:
 
I would definitely take a look at how Buck has their warranty worded, as its one of the most reasonable around. How many 110's have been around and I don't recall every hearing of someone upset with the way failures were reported.

For instance a few nice features would be:

Blade replacement (with a fee of course)

Factory sharpening (maybe fee, maybe not)

Repairs at descretion of you guys

Shipping hardware out for cost of parts+shipping

Do not cover the coating or asthetics.

Lock adjustments should be covered under warranty IMO. Just takes putting in a larger stop pin, and can make all the difference in the world when using a titanium lockbar.

Removing and replacing stripped screws, takes some work with an ezout but the alternative is users taking power tools to their knives, this should have a fee IMO




So to wrap up, if someone snaps the tip off, tell them new blades cost blank amount, buy one and we'll put it in for you, unless you get it and it looks to be a manufacturing issue. Same procedure for other things which are usually user error, like stripped screws and lost pieces. Everything else will have to be case by case.

Good of you guys to ask a big pool of knife users what a good warranty is, wish everyone did!
 
Personally I think our warranty has to be better than the average warranty. I think it needs to be lifetime and transferable from user to user without any need of a sales receipt or paperwork. Mainly, we want to build a trust with the end-user to know that even if something is not stated in the warranty, if you're honorable then we're going to take care of you. Trust me, this is all new ground to us because we have never made a folder before so we are relying hevaily on the community to guide us. Sure, we could simply charge twice the price and warranty it without question but it is my opinion that most users would rather pay half the price for the same quality and accept that a folder is breakable and will wear out over time.
 
Apebrains said:
I trust you guys to do what's right by us, AND by you. If I hurt mine, I'll be sure to tell you why, and leave it in your hands as to whether or not you're willing to cover me.

I think a decent rubric has already been laid out here, so I don't have much else to write.
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I agree with both things you've said . I think a limited lifetime warranty at the the mfg's discretion as to whether the knife was stupidly used would be sufficient. I believe the mfg is ultimately the one to determine if a part failure was the result of a mfg. defect or because of mis use.
 
Yall keep this thread going. We appreciate each and every one of you, and our whole goal is to show that a knife company and it's end-users can work together for a better overall product and experience. It's a community thing ;)

I'm done on the forums until we get back from Reno. Have fun and stay safe guys.
 
It would be interesting to sell, while the parts are still easily available, a kit filled with all of the wear and tear parts to keep us going for say, 10 years.

I can't imagine a kit like that would cost very much, but it would be nice to have.
 
The BIGGEST thing I would say is "no pimping" or "customizing" or whatever the heck people do....
thinking they will "improve" stuff and end up weakening it, screwing it up, or whatever.

If they don't like it the way it is, don't buy it - if they want the warranty.

That would protect the knife as it transfers in the secondary market too...thus insuring the resale value would never be much below the new price...
just as the warranty on the fixed blades sets the floor on the market for those as being close to new prices.
and most importantly...it would give confidence to the new buyer that they are getting something great, not screwed around with.
 
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