HEST Folder Warranty -Your Thoughts

Jeff - you guys are being exceedingly open minding and gracious about asking the user community for input on the warranty. The simple fact that you started with us instead of the lawyers blows me away.

My recommendation would be to model after the warranties you like from good knife companies, then improve it for your folding knives. Personally I feel that the warranty should pretty much cover the knife forever unless it has been modified or abused (obviously abuse should be clearly defined). I don't see anyway around that unless you follow the Strider model and 2x the cost of the knife to cover the knife unconditionally - even then they limit the coverage on modifications.

You might consider a hybrid pro-rated warranty the covers everything for a period of time, then is scaled down as the knife ages. Say - provide unconditional warranty for 5 years, then prorated 25% less per year afterwards. I don't think too many people would gripe about not having an unconditional warranty for a 10 year old knife. This would entail some marking or date stamping of the knives for tracking. BTW - I would also recommend somehow cross-marking the major parts of the knife to guard against part swapping. Dealing with swapped parts is a major warranty costs for some production companies, so you might consider some method of matching the blade with the handle at least.

One way around having costly, unconditional warranty coverage is to offer inexpensive refurbishment/repair services with combined with excellent customer service. Using the Reeve model, I've seen severely abused knives get repaired for around $150. Typically complete refurbishment of a knife costs less than $75, so people aren't afraid to really use the knives. I think that re-sharpening, lock adjustment, cleaning, and general "tune-ups" should be free, or at least very inexpensive. Easy user disassembly and cleaning is a big plus.


That's about all I have this early. Thanks for asking, and have a great time next week.
 
UDT-SEAL said:
Using your ESSE/HEST folding blade knife for any purpose other than cutting or puncturing is considered abuse and may void your warranty.
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the way that reads, cutting or puncturing a cinderbloock would be covered. no bueno.

worn/loose Kraton slabs,
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not a huge fan of Kraton and thankfully i've never seen a Rat/ESEE that used it.

replace "Kraton" with "scales" and it's good tho.

no argument, folders have moving parts, small parts and usually many more parts than a fixed blade. all that obviously equates to higher production costs and more labor involved in making most folders, at least when compared to a fixed blade of similar length.

for some things tho i don't get too wrapped up in the exact phrasing of the warranty. consider Hyundai and Toyota for example. Hyundai offers what sounds like a GREAT warranty... but they need it. Toyota offers a better product, but their warranty is not as good as that offered by some of their competition... but they DON'T need it. and when i bought a new truck, i bought the Toy, simply because the product has a better reputation than many other brands.

however last time i needed a warranty on a knife i got hosed. mthe expensive, but poorly designed folder started to fall apart after carrying it for one day. contacted the manufacturer here on BF and was told that i "must have disassembled it and put it back together wrong" and then they overcharged for replacement screws that didn't solve the problem.and i've got a nice kitchen knife with cracked scales that i haven't been able to get replaced under warranty. :(

my point is, from what i've seen, ESEE could offer NO warranty at all and they'd still try to make it right if something happened.

talk's cheap, but i'd still buy knives with no (printed) warranty from these guys simply because i've seen examples of what they will cover.

i like warranties that i don't have to use because the item keeps working, MUCH better than a warranty you're always using because the cheap (or expensive) POS keeps falling apart.
 
I would like to see one except to the warranty that would be publicized.

"This is a H.E.S.T. so if any knife is damaged or broken or abused to a point of failure in any way, but that failure was due to extreme survival circumstances and that the owner survived because of the use of this knife. Then the knife will be replaced with a new knife."

This would require a bit of documentation, a newspaper clipping or a police report anything that could validate the story to a degree plus a written story of the experience. This would of course need a waiver so the story could be used for advertising. I think if it was an extreme survival situation (civilian anyhow) it would probably involve media exposure and trading your story for a new knife would be at the choice of the survivor. If he chooses not to tell his story he probably wont be interested in another knife either.

BTW Jeff, this idea is awesome! Thank You!
 
I think the warranty should stay the same as the original warranty. BUT, if we send in nude pics of wife or gf then we get next day shipping both ways for free? :D

I think the original warranty ya'll came up with is good with me.

Its also weird to see a lot of people going backwards and making your original warranty "worse". By charging money and doing hardening tests and all that. You'd figure most people would want it BETTER, not more strict. I still view the HEST folder as a survival blade/EDC blade and would be sad if I couldn't pry with it (I miss the pry bar :( ) for fear of being stuck with a broken blade. I of course wouldn't do anything crazy to try and see how much I could get out of it before it broke.
 
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Each new knife is packaged with written documentation of the *Folder* Warranty. ESEE Knives warrants to the original owner that the knife will be free from defects in materials and workmanship. ESEE Knives will without charge, repair or replace at our option, any knife returned for Warranty work and found to be defective by ESEE Knives .



This Warranty covers replacement parts and labor.


This Warranty does not cover normal wear, resharpening of the blade, damage caused by neglect, misuse or the failure to perform normal or necessary maintenance, disassembly of any knife by any person other than ESEE Knives Warranty department, or shipping costs for returned knives.

Do not disassemble your knife. Do not sharpen your knife on a power grinding wheel. Any of these acts will void your Warranty. MINIMUM CHARGE TO REASSEMBLE A KNIFE WHEN THE WARRANTY HAS BEEN VOIDED IS $$$ PLUS PARTS.

Repair or replacement as provided under this Warranty is the exclusive remedy of the consumer. ESEE Knives shall not be liable for any incidental, reliance, or consequential damages or breach of implied Warranty on this product, including any damage to person or property. ESEE Knives liability under any circumstances is limited to the purchase price.

This knife has only one use, as a cutting tool. ESEE knives carry no warranty except as expressly contained herein. ESEE Knives disclaims all warranties of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose other than for use as a cutting tool. There are no warranties which extend beyond the description contained herein. Please review the Warranty information and proper knife care instructions provided with each knife.
 
I think the big thing that NEEDS to be fully covered is if the blade itself breaks. Not the pivot, pivot hole, etc, but if the blade itself dies, it needs to be replaced.

It should include prying. I mean the damn thing is 3/16" thick.

Now it would be cool if you replaced for free a knife destroyed in the act of actually saving the owner's life. Of course, you could stipulate that the knife has to be returned to you or RYP to be put up on a "brag board".
 
I would only warrant the knife for defects in construction or materials. I have folders that are much less rugged looking that I have used for years without breaking them. Cold Steel Voyagers have Zytel handles, and no liners at all. They have proven to be amazingly tough for all my cutting uses. The HEST will be much tougher. And it has a bottle opener! But any knife can be broken if that is your intent. I just can't see the HEST failing at any normal knife task.
 
texastonydobbs said:
Each new knife is packaged with written documentation of the *Folder* Warranty. ESEE Knives warrants to the original owner that the knife will be free from defects in materials and workmanship. ESEE Knives will without charge, repair or replace at our option, any knife returned for Warranty work and found to be defective by ESEE Knives .



This Warranty covers replacement parts and labor.


This Warranty does not cover normal wear, resharpening of the blade, damage caused by neglect, misuse or the failure to perform normal or necessary maintenance, disassembly of any knife by any person other than ESEE Knives Warranty department, or shipping costs for returned knives.

Do not disassemble your knife. Do not sharpen your knife on a power grinding wheel. Any of these acts will void your Warranty. MINIMUM CHARGE TO REASSEMBLE A KNIFE WHEN THE WARRANTY HAS BEEN VOIDED IS $$$ PLUS PARTS.

Repair or replacement as provided under this Warranty is the exclusive remedy of the consumer. ESEE Knives shall not be liable for any incidental, reliance, or consequential damages or breach of implied Warranty on this product, including any damage to person or property. ESEE Knives liability under any circumstances is limited to the purchase price.

This knife has only one use, as a cutting tool. ESEE knives carry no warranty except as expressly contained herein. ESEE Knives disclaims all warranties of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose other than for use as a cutting tool. There are no warranties which extend beyond the description contained herein. Please review the Warranty information and proper knife care instructions provided with each knife.
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This sounds about right to me.
 
If ESEE changed the warranty for the fixed blades I would be sick! On the folders they are obviously not as tough. Truth is I didn't abuse my Striders that had a ESEE fixed blade warranty. But there are some that would.

Benchmade will replace a broken blade for 25 bucks as part of their warranty. I like this plan... If you break it you all is not lost. Also, you know upfront what a new blade will run. 25 for a blade of s30v, 154c etc is a bargain too!

So my thought is warranty materials and craftsman ship if necessary... Then send the knife in for CHEAP repair.
 
I agree with copying the Strider warranty ideals. Here's what I expect out of my folders though.

When I get it, it works, 100%. I'm fine with a little break in. The lock bar shouldn't be over 50% engaged. The knife should be sharp, the blade should be centered, the coatings should be perfect, the grinds should be perfect, there should be no rust.

I think that anything that causes the aforementioned to go wrong (minus coating wear) should be covered regardless of being the original owner or not. But you also need a clause to get out of the obvious beatings. Something between CRK service and warranty and Striders original ideals.

I also think replacement parts should be available for purchase, glass breaker, slabs, clip, bushings, etc.
 
I think that the original warranty I saw (paraphrased), "We we'll repair/replace a damaged knife without question to the original registered owner" is just perfect. Your typical customer (95%+) isn't going to run the knife through the wringer enough to break a knife this overbuilt and your price point should allow you to do warranty service for the rare occasions where you do need to do service or replacement to a customer. I can't see more than one in twenty knives (and probably far less than this in all honesty) coming back for service of any type so it should be a non-issue if you set your price point correctly.

If you call a folder a "Hostile Environment Survival Tool" then you need to back that sucker up like Fort Knox, y'know? No whingy "unless it's abused" (read: if we feel like it) or "if you do something stupid" (read: something we didn't like) added in to make things all wishy-washy. The knife needs to be there and at 100% to save someone's life when they're neck deep in it and the level is still rising. If the customer can't count on the company to back them up when they have to use the knife en extremis then what the hell is the point of making the bloody thing?

Added thoughts: One thing you might do for your warranty work is to send a fresh knife to the customer and then have your repair shop refurbish the old one to factory specs before reselling it at a reasonable discount. Most people won't care enough whether it's used or not (look at Sig and Glock reselling) as long as it's to factory spec and they can save a bit of cash. Just something to think about as I keep seeing used knives selling just fine all the time, let alone one that is brought back to factory specs.
 
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I'm sure all kinds of people here buy knives without ever examining the warrenty first. I know I have. If I see a knife a like and then I find out it has a great warrenty then that's just a bonus. I'm sure whatever warranty you guys come up with will be fine. If someone likes a knife they are going to buy it.
 
solocanoe said:
The BIGGEST thing I would say is "no pimping" or "customizing" or whatever the heck people do....
thinking they will "improve" stuff and end up weakening it, screwing it up, or whatever.

If they don't like it the way it is, don't buy it - if they want the warranty.

That would protect the knife as it transfers in the secondary market too...thus insuring the resale value would never be much below the new price...
just as the warranty on the fixed blades sets the floor on the market for those as being close to new prices.
and most importantly...it would give confidence to the new buyer that they are getting something great, not screwed around with.
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I generally agree with that because it cover's the company when someone decides to take a dremel to their blade. However, there are companies that went from a no bull warranty to an expressly "if you polished your folder's blade, smoothed the handle scales" your warranty was completely void. Meaning you couldn't satinize, scotchbrite, beadblast, mustard/vinegar patina your blade if it didn't come that way.

ESEE makes their stuff to be used and some slight modifications may come along with that. If the modification doesn't damage the integrity of the knife I think it should be covered. Smoothing the g10 shouldn't affect whether or not the blade breaks. Maybe taking a picture of your broken knife can't apply for folders depending on how it breaks.
 
I agree with most everything that has been stated,HOWEVER I do not agree with the "Do Not Disassemble" part.That part reminds me of Benchmade's warranty & it's a big turn-off IMHO.
I think disassembly should be encouraged like with Chris Reeve Knives.In order to properly clean & lube it,you need to disassemble it.I mean,it's a framelock.It's fairly easy to take apart & put back together.





[edited to add] It's really cool of you to ask us about this.Thanks RAT/ESEE :thumbup:
 
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Lifetime warranty. Excludes obvious abuse. Abuse fixed at a reasonable cost.

This is being marketed as a hostile environment survival tool, it had better be tough. That being said 99.9% of us don't beat on the items that we may need to use to survive. We use them, and use them hard, but not abuse. It doesn't matter how good a warranty is when you're 300 miles out in the middle of nowhere with a broken blade.

Of the .1% that does really abuse their tools I'd say most of them are ethical enough to not expect a replacement. If one does come back that has been really beat, replace the blade (or whatever) charge $25 (or something reasonable) and fire it back out.

Make small parts available too. One of the reasons I only load on Dillon presses is the warranty and easy availability of the little bushings and such. Maybe hold back blades and frames as factory only.
 
JTR357 said:
I agree with most everything that has been stated,HOWEVER I do not agree with the "Do Not Disassemble" part.That part reminds me of Benchmade's warranty & it's a big turn-off IMHO.
I think disassembly should be encouraged like with Chris Reeve Knives.In order to properly clean & lube it,you need to disassemble it.I mean,it's a framelock.It's fairly easy to take apart & put back together.
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Yeah, telling a user that they can't disassemble their knife is pretty crazy. It's not hard to put back together a framelock. I imagine that there are times where you have to take them apart if you were in a really dirty/sandy environment. For example, emerson deliberately uses phillips and flathead screws so users don't need to carry special tools with them if they ever need to take it apart. D2 isn't stainless either so i would think you might have take some extra care with the pivot area if you're around the ocean. If a company won't warranty rust, they have to let users be able to check for it.
 
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