HEST Folder Warranty -Your Thoughts

JTR357 said:
I agree with most everything that has been stated,HOWEVER I do not agree with the "Do Not Disassemble" part.That part reminds me of Benchmade's warranty & it's a big turn-off IMHO.
I think disassembly should be encouraged like with Chris Reeve Knives.In order to properly clean & lube it,you need to disassemble it.I mean,it's a framelock.It's fairly easy to take apart & put back together.
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+1! I prefer certain brands over others for just this reason - if it gets really dirty, etc. I want to be able to strip it and clean it.
 
Without getting to technical, I would for the most part take the same approach that you take with all your other knives. A no questions asked fix or replacement from owner to owner on the blade and body. The one place I think your going to need to put some type of limit (due to length of time or abuse) is on the joint and the locking mechanism.
 
"The warranty will be void if the owner's last words uttered were

"Hey Bubba...Watch This"

or maybe

"Becha Cain't Do Thees"..

Dunno...we'll have the legal team go over the exact wording :)))

I just think companies that sell cool shit should have cool warranties.
 
UDT's warranty sounds way too much like Canon's. Buy a 500 dollar camera, it croaks in 2 weeks to due lens error, and the customer is blamed for abuse.
 
With the rep you gents have, I think you can afford the use your discretion here, and charge a minute cost for part replacement as your discretion requires. Call it;

Limited lifetime warranty against defect in manufacture, sustainable ownership via low cost repair work.

EG. a borken blade that wasn't deemed an HT or metal quality problem, blade replaced for $30. Blade obviously not HT'd right or metal not uniform than replace for free.

Also, broken screws, stripped heads, alot of work involved there, and it's not the manufacturers problem, so you shouldn't have to eat this cost either.
 
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After further consideration...I will not buy a HEST folder if the warranty changes. I love my ESEE/RAT stuff. I will continue to buy it. But personally I don't like that warranty is changing.
 
When I first heard of the HEST folder, I was immediately attracted to it because it would be a hard use folder with the ESEE warranty. I completely understand that folders can't be subject to the same abuse as fixed blades, but I think an ESEE folder needs to have more expected of it than opening packages.

The ESEE warranty allows people to USE their knives without hesitation. I hope that there can be a balance found between this philosophy and a realistic folder warranty. I think a transferable no questions asked warranty on everything accept wear and tear would be helpful in conjunction with refurbishing options (for wear and tear) that were cheap enough to not warrant simply purchasing a new knife.
 
psychophipps said:
If you call a folder a "Hostile Environment Survival Tool" then you need to back that sucker up like Fort Knox, y'know? No whingy "unless it's abused" (read: if we feel like it) or "if you do something stupid" (read: something we didn't like) added in to make things all wishy-washy. The knife needs to be there and at 100% to save someone's life when they're neck deep in it and the level is still rising. If the customer can't count on the company to back them up when they have to use the knife en extremis then what the hell is the point of making the bloody thing?
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I want to that say to esee and dpx good job on asking us for our input on the warranty. Thank You!

My thoughts on the warranty should be along the line of the strider's. Back the knife/product not the owner with a lifetime warranty and with good customer service to get it fixed should the need arise. Just like the above quote you market a knife as such, back it up. Also try to keep the warranty simple and straight forward like the fixed blade's. Layout what is covered and what is not. If there are parts that are considered "wear and tear" and not covered then list what they are and on the esee or dpx site post prices for replacement parts and what if any services are offered. If esee comes out with any upgraded models, offer the upgraded parts (if possible) to current owners. How about starting with a sheath with molle attachments in the near future?
Not sure how I feel with don't take your knife apart that other posters mentioned. I realize with the rotolock, esee may not want us the consumer to disassemble the knife? With a hard use knife meant to go anywear it will need to be cleaned. Maybe include a parts sheet with directions on how to disassemle and field strip and clean and lube the knife. Without maintenance especially when moving parts are involved will wear and fail prematurely. Also with "pimping" your knife, we all like to customize with different scales or lanyards etc. Common sense should be applied here, as long as it does not cause the rotolock or blade to fail pimping should be ok. We all know that esee will make a great folder and will do right with the warranty. Esee has set the bar high with the fixed blade's warranty, just keep it going with the H.E.S.T.
 
Ok, I have question that I need answered before I'll know if my suggestions will make sense:

Why can't the folder have the same warranty as the fixed blades?
 
folder has moving parts. a fixed blade does not. moving parts no matter how well or perfectly made eventually wear. also the blade to handle joint is never going to be as strong on a folder as a fixed blade.

for the warranty i'd say lifetime transferable warranty everything covered except wear and cosmetics.

cricket
 
a folder has moving parts which wear. for example, if a fixed blade breaks under batoning then something is wrong because that is normal use on a fixed. batoning a folder is considered extrememly bad because it puts a lot of stress on the locking contact/lock face.
 
i think that a lifetime stays with the knife warranty, that covers everything except wear, tear, and cosmetics would be good. but charge extra for refurb options, like readjusting the lockbar, and refinishing the blade/frame.
 
I think the warranty should cover every problem caused by normal use (EG: not screwdriver broken tip usage) including wear until its not modified and only contain factory parts. And of course free sharpening:) It's a great add to the warranty.

For those who like to modify the knife (pimp scales, regrind blade..etc) give the chance to buy the parts which had to be replaced and charge the costs for them. In this case everyone can send in their knives to repair, but those who misuse it, abuse it, or pimp it should pay. The rest should not.

This is my 00.2 I think its correct for the the customers and for the vendor\manufacturer (you:)) too:)
 
nidhoggr said:
a folder has moving parts which wear. for example, if a fixed blade breaks under batoning then something is wrong because that is normal use on a fixed. batoning a folder is considered extrememly bad because it puts a lot of stress on the locking contact/lock face.
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I just have trouble seeing how a company that has publicly said they will honor the warranty if you cut one of their fixed blades in half with a blowtorch is doing to balk at repairing a 'hard use' folder if someone uses the tip as a screwdriver.

I'm not an economist, or a businessman. But one thing I do find myself thinking of is that Zippo has the same warranty on their lighters as RAT does on their knives. Send them the pieces, they fix it it up and mail it back. No questions. No charge. That's on a $10 lighter with a bunch of moving parts. A $175 knife billed as a tough ready for anything Hostile Enviornment Survival Tool can't match that? Really?

Now...If i have the knife for 5 years and flick it open and shut constantly and eventually the pivot gets a little sloppy or something, ok. That's normal wear/age. I wouldn't expect RAT to do anything about that anymore than if a few years from now my ESEE-3 gets a little rusty. (Though reasonably priced spare parts/refurb service would be nice)

But anything that happens which results in my knife being in more than one piece I hope would be covered...because that seems to be the basic philosophy behind the original RAT Warranty.
 
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marcusthemonkey said:
When I first heard of the HEST folder, I was immediately attracted to it because it would be a hard use folder with the ESEE warranty. I completely understand that folders can't be subject to the same abuse as fixed blades, but I think an ESEE folder needs to have more expected of it than opening packages.

The ESEE warranty allows people to USE their knives without hesitation. I hope that there can be a balance found between this philosophy and a realistic folder warranty. I think a transferable no questions asked warranty on everything accept wear and tear would be helpful in conjunction with refurbishing options (for wear and tear) that were cheap enough to not warrant simply purchasing a new knife.
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You are entirely correct marcusthemonkey, I agree 100%. If you are going to market this as a hard use survival/outdoor folder, warranty it as such.
 
Just my thoughts:
-The warranty should cover (unintentional) tip breakage that can't be sharpened out.
-The warranty should cover edge damaged cause by normal use.
-The knife should be allowed to be dissasembled. A small fee if you can't put it back together yourself.
-The knife should be allowed to be sharpened on a motorized wheel/belt. -If you mess up the heat-treat or edge, that should not be covered.
-Significant lock wear should be covered. Including blade-play that can't be corrected yourself.
-Pivot problems that can't be fixed by yourself should be covered.
-The warranty should follow the knife.
-Sharpening for $s+h (some would like that, but most would do it themselves).
-Problems that aren't under warranty should be able to be fixed at a reasonable cost to the owner. New blade/parts included.
-Cosmetic damage resulting from use should not be covered.
-Modifications should be allowed, but damage inflicted by those mods should not be covered. -No modifications allowed to the lock or pivot.
-After the knife is no longer in production (if ever), the knife should still be able to be fixed.
 
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ESEE has not deviated from its warranty one iota, I thought the discussion was about the DPX line warranty.
 
UDT-SEAL said:
Warranty Information
All ESSE/HEST products are guaranteed against defects in workmanship and materials for the life of the original purchaser. This guarantee is voided (as determined by ESSE/HEST ) by misuse, abuse, improper maintenance, or alterations of the product and does not cover any normal wear or tear that might occur. Using your ESSE/HEST folding blade knife for any purpose other than cutting or puncturing is considered abuse and may void your warranty.

Examples of Non-Warranted items:
Rusted/spotted/stained blades or handles (coated or not), broken or bent knife tips, worn tool components, dull/chipped knife blades, scratched blade/tool coatings, worn/loose Kraton slabs, sheaths and pouches (if brand new sheaths are determined to be defective they are replaced separately from the knife/tool), and broken/lost thumb studs.

Broken Blades:
In the unlikely case that your knife blade breaks, we will do a hardness test on it to see if it is within specs and therefore eligible for replacement.


Costs:
ESSE/HEST Will pre-determine the cost of repair or replacement of non-warranted items and communicate the estimated cost to the customer before any work is performed.


When returning product for warranty/replacement
please do the following:
Include a brief note inside your package stating what you are returning, the claimed defect and how it failed. Also, include inside the package, your name, address, and a daytime phone number or email address to reach you in case we have any questions.
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this sounds fair.
 
richard thurman said:
this sounds fair.
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UDT's warranty if far from fair and can be summed up entirely with "we offer no warranty either written or implied beyond defects caused by improper manufacture"

Without sounding like an A-hole I would not support any tool company (knives, axes, hammers, sockets, screwdrivers, whatever) With such a crappy warranty. You pay good money for a tool, its not a crystal statue, collectors item or replica, its for making a certain task either easier or possible.

I have confidence ESEE will not go this route with their brand of hard use tools.

ron_m80 said:
ESEE has not deviated from its warranty one iota, I thought the discussion was about the DPX line warranty.
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I get what your saying but keep in mind bladeforums users are not the only people who buy ESEE knives. I think to create a different "class" of knives (not deserving the same warranty) with the DPX logo would be insulting to both the consumer and the guys from DPX
 
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joben said:
i just have trouble seeing how a company that has publicly said they will honor the warranty if you cut one of their fixed blades in half with a blowtorch is doing to balk at repairing a 'hard use' folder if someone uses the tip as a screwdriver.

I'm not an economist, or a businessman. But one thing i do find myself thinking of is that zippo has the same warranty on their lighters as rat does on their knives. Send them the pieces, they fix it it up and mail it back. No questions. No charge. That's on a $10 lighter with a bunch of moving parts. A $175 knife billed as a tough ready for anything hostile enviornment survival tool can't match that? Really?

Now...if i have the knife for 5 years and flick it open and shut constantly and eventually the pivot gets a little sloppy or something, ok. That's normal wear/age. I wouldn't expect rat to do anything about that anymore than if a few years from now my esee-3 gets a little rusty. (though reasonably priced spare parts/refurb service would be nice)

but anything that happens which results in my knife being in more than one piece i hope would be covered...because that seems to be the basic philosophy behind the original rat warranty.
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this!
 
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