Hey COPS!

I don't have anything to contribute to this thread, but I think I have a solution for you archie. When there was some schenanegans going on here about bus rates going up (and other issues), I went down to a council meeting and voiced my thoughts on the subject. Your concerns about having your Sebbie taken away one day are shared by many members here. In other words, you are preaching to the choir!

If I were you, I'd draft a very gentle letter and mail it to politicians. Just explain that you are an average joe who has found, like many humans over the past several thousand years, that knives are incredibly useful! Maybe even include a pic of your sebbie- don't be afraid to educate your politicians. You know more about knives than most politicians, I'm sure. Draft a nice letter, and let u sknow what the result was!
 
Originally posted by Megalobyte
In the spirit of this exchange, i guess what i would like to know is the following. To you police officers out there. You pull someone over for speeding, not too fast, but maybe 10 over the limit. When you look inside his car, you see a Microtech Halo on the passenger seat. Assume this is an illegal knife in your jurisdiction. Assuming he has broken no laws other than mild speeding, has a valid registration and insurance card and no warrants. Do you arrest him for the knife, take it from him, or send him on his way with it and his speeding ticket? Is the mere presence of the knife enough to make a normal speeding ticket stop into something more?
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Meg, it depends on the person and the event/incident. This is where DISCRETION applies. If the person is a polite, respectful and compliant individual and after conversing with him I discover him to be a righteous individual, he would be on his way without a summons and with his HALO.

But it just does not happen often, good upstanding citizens carrying high-end knives becoming involved negatively with LE. Most of the knives taken as contraband are junk and the person who has his knife taken has done something to severly limit the application of discretion.

Archie, I would love to know in what manner you exposed your sebenza to have it cause turmoil. The other day I was at the Doctor's and the waiting room was full. I saw an article in a magazine that I had to have. After asking, I used a MT Socom D/A tactical and not one person became offended. It drew zero attention.........

Police Officers are charged with Law enforcement within the framework established by their department's Administration. Also, most cops do not know the difference between Microtech and micro-tec and if I said "sebenza" they would inform me they had their immunization shot in the fall. The bottom line is that it is not the knife that generally dictates the response but the attitude and demeanor of the knife owner.

A good, upstanding citizen has nothing to fear from real Police Officers, nothing............Ira
 
A good, upstanding citizen has nothing to fear from real Police Officers, nothing............Ira

I understand what you are saying but 'bad' police officers are 'real' police officers, too unfortunately. Indeed, the percentage of police who might fit into the 'bad' category is not insignificant if we consider 'bad' as inexperienced, ignorant or one who enforces <i>his</i> law as often as public law.

Here in Oregon, the law says that any length/type knife may be worn if not concealed. However, I have had several instances where officers try to inform me that the 'legal' length of blade allowed is 3.5 inchs and that it is concealed if not in a sheath but kept mainly covered by a pocket. One of those officers attempted to confiscate my Cold Steel Scimitar without an arrest or receipt and would have with most other sheeple. He backed-down when I called his bluff--'bad' cop.

'Real' police don't try to bluff the law or intimidate someone for disagreements they may have. They don't enforce their personal will and arguments by issuing ad hominem...
 
...but to answer your question, yes. If you've got beer cans rolling around in your vehicle, you're asking for trouble. I would think that would be probable cause for a search, whether you've been drinking or not. And if upon a search, a knife turns up, then hoochiemama.

Dependent upon the circumstances, one would most likely battle it out in court, especially in regard to the "cans just being there for recycling purposes" concept. But if a Halo III turned up in the process, well, there's that dumbass factor again.

Professor.
 
Lots of interesting opinions, perspectives, etc guys.., and thanks. :)

I think it's actually totally impossibe for any of these Law Enforcement folks to answer in concrete terms..., and there has been mention of that subtley by many.

Each situation involving a broken law involves abstractions that make it impossible to have a "Blanket" answer to simply spit out. Having said this.., I appreciate those of you that enforce the law daily taking a stab at it..., and I/we certainly appreciate what you guys/gals do.


"Hunters seek what they [WANT].., Seekers hunt what they [NEED]"
 
excellent thread, guys. I think we have broken through some thought barriers here. At least for me. The only cop I know is a Homicide Detective here in Austin (sisters boyfriend), and well... he don't care about nothin' but premature death... and dats da fact!

Usually when I know I'm in a "sheeple" situation, I take GREAT CARE not to upset with my cutting needs. I even open my seb with two hands a-la-slipjoint. I don't have any bones in my nose or "strange" body jewelry (or any for that matter). It just goes to show that GREAT 'ol saying...

"In an insane world, the sane man appears insane."
 
archieblue,


Quote:

"OK... so you DID take knives. Now... justify taking someone else's property. Who were you serving? Who were you protecting?"



What part of "illegal" don't you understand? Why don't you go trolling on another forum? Better yet, why not go over to AR15.com? I'll bet you'll get lots of sympathizers over there.

BTW, I justify my actions in court, not to a Troll on the internet.
 
The Cops would alwase take my Endura to thier car with them:grumpy:
I think they just wanted to play w/ it. What can I say, I'm a criminal.
 
Everybody, The Cops have a very important job. If you don't like it call your congressmen. Personally I'd like to see them relent a little. My frineds and I tend to see the police as opressive and just unrealistic in how they view things. but that's just me.

love the fourm, great place :D
 
Ira is right. it is up to the discretion of the P.O.

But, if you get pulled over, and the the cop decides to take your illegl knife, don't be mad at him. He did not ask you to possess an illegal knife.

Bottom line is, if it is illegal, a cop can seize it, but may not. If it is not illegal, and he has no reason to believe it has been used in a crime, or will be, he can't take it.
This is where you get into interpretation of the law, here in Canada, what is legal and what is not, and it is a well disputed area.

What I don't understand is why people buy things that they know to be illegal, and bitch about it when they get caught.
TAKE SOME RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR ACTIONS.
It's like these drivers that get pissed off when they get a speeding ticket. "F---ing pig, I was only doing 20 kms over..."
Hello!! The speed limit is not just a suggestion!
You know, I know that I will never commit a crime with a balisong, and if I owned one, nobody would ever know. But I don't have any, because they are not legal where I live.
Seems pretty simple to me.

BTW, I have never had to confiscate a knife that I would consider good. In fact, I have rarely encountered anything other than steak knives, or the occasional cheap hunter.
 
Your TRUE COLORS have appeared!!!!! 'Cops are Oppressive'. That my friend is an absolute crock of sh*t. Cops have one of the most difficult jobs on the planet. It's not a popularity contest and police officers are not doing what they do to be liked, they do what they do because that's WHO THEY ARE!!!

Sure, there are badge heavy cops. But a blanket statement that you and your friends find "cops Oppressive" indicates to me that you do things that cause their attention to be diverted in your direction often.

Why can't you look at it this way: You and you Buds are out in the world acting like juvenile asswholes. You don't give a rat's A$$ about the rights of anyone but your own and get pissed when confronted by the police to put your childish behavior in check.

You say that Police Officers take your Spyderco because they want to "play with it"? Give me a break:rolleyes: :rolleyes: I am absolutely certain they have far better things to do and their presence in your face is brought about by your conduct in PUBLIC.

Look at your remarks here. You have turned into an abrasive little twit. If you want to post that you think "cops suck", then do not mince words.

But you are trying to make some misguided point that cops enjoy taking knives away from decent upstanding citizens and then slip it in their pocket for later use. That is miles from the truth.

If you are carrying an ILLEGAL weapon, and then engage in bullsh*t conduct that brings you to the attention of the police and then act like a schmuck, you are going to be cuffed and stuffed. Your knife will be used as evidence at your trial and then DESTROYED after your conviction.

On the other hand, if you are truly an upstanding, respectful and compliant citizen, the police officer will exercise discretion to the outter limits of his ability to insure that your knife remains safely in your pocket. The officer does not write the Law, he ENFORCES IT!!!. It all boils down to level of enforcementand DISCRETION.

99.99999% of this Nation's Police Officers are far from oppressive. They are working in a stress filled enviornment dealing with idiots like you.......Ira
 
Ira put that very nicely.
MercuryHayze, I can only tell you that you don't know what realistic point of view is if you don't understand an officers need for safty. We make thousands of field contacts every year and most of them are never charged at all. You always have to have your guard up at least a little. Every person you talk to says I'm not armed or I'm not going to hurt you. Oh, and they are so surprized about the gun under their seat or the knife they forgot to mention. If you think you can tell anything about a person by the way they look, then you are the unrealistic one. Most people do not understand why officers approach people in a specific way, or why they walk up on a car a specific way. Even the way we are trained to stand while talking to people. Most people don't know the shortest distance you can allow a person with a knife to get to you and still have a chance shoot them before they stab you. We are not out their doing these things to tick you off. We do these things to make it home to see our loved ones. If you are worried about getting charged, then read your local laws and don't break them. Below is a websight that you should take a look at. It may help you understand a LEO point of view a little better. These officers now have families that will never have their company again in this life. All because they were out doing their job, and protecting the public. Rant off

www.odmp.org

Reagan
 
Interesting thread. At 47 I really have not had any bad run-ins with officers and always have several knives in my car briefcase and or pocket. Never have had a problem, but that is due to respect.
One thing to always keep in mind is that an officer typically has to deal with the lower end of society. Their lives are on the line every day and they do not know you.

In three cases I have been questioned (once as an armed robbery suspect, once for "trespassing" while target shooting with a friend on his land on a safe range, and pulled over once for "suspected gang activity".

1. Armed Robbery - I was 20 driving back to school and had car problems in a small town. Officer was a great guy and within 5 minutes relized that he needed to keep looking.

2. Trespassing. This young man (I was about 40 at the time) was a little over-reactive. He entered my friends property (about 20 acres in rural Georgia roughly handled and cuffed us both making us lie face down on the ground with a knee firmly placed in our backs. We had followed his instruction to unload and place our pistols on the ground By the time it was over with he was apologizing, but his actions were totaly un professional. The key here is that during the whole incident both my friend and I spoke to him with respect and followed his instructions. I think the ice finally broke when he approched me grabbed my .45 (unloaded and on the ground and was about to fling it a safe distance) I told him (with respect) that the pistol was a customized .45 and asked that he handle it accordingly. They are used to seeing junk weapons.

3. Gang activity. This one was the only one that got to me. I was 45 and had been helping a friend clear fallen trees from his parents property for 2 days (Exhausting work). Was heading home in the evening covered in sweat and sawdust. I really was not thinking and had a bandana on my head used as a sweat band. This little bozo pulled me over and got out of his car with his gun drawn and aimed at me. You could tell this was a rare one that enjoyed hasseling folks. After realizing that there was no way I was a gang member nor had I broken any traffic laws. He starts making me turn on my lights and blinkers looking for an excuse to site me. He is no longer an officer in the community where I live. He asked to search my vehicle, but I refused saying he had no probable cause for the search. That upset him. I had nothing to hide, but I did have a couple of chainsaws and a machete in my trunk. If he had made the smallest indication that his actions toward me were a little over-reactive I would have been a little more co-operative. I felt this guy had some major problems and was full of himself. There just are not 45 year old gang members in surburban middle class Atlanta :). I felt he had no excuse for pulling me over and tried to cover his actions by looking for an excuse to site me. The proper action as far as I am concerned would have been to explain that he was concerned about gang activity and send me on my way after he came to the obvious conclusion that I was heading home (about 5 blocks away) after a hard days work.



There is a County officer that lives a couple of doors down from me and we have become close friends over the years. I have learned a lot from him and agree that if you are conducting yourself in a respectful manner that you have nothing to worry about. If you are guilty of an offence, face up to it and be honest. If you act like a jerk, I feel the officer is doing society a favor in taking every action that the law allows.


The key for me has been respect. Maybe not in each case for the person, but at least for the job that they have and an understanding of the type of people they encounter day in and day out.
 
Originally posted by SOX
These officers now have families that will never have their company again in this life. All because they were out doing their job, and protecting the public. Rant off

www.odmp.org

Reagan
Click to expand...

i agree that people need to be responsible for their actions. when you engage in an illegal activity, regardless of how you 'feel' about it, you are liable to be stung. but to justify police bad behavior and tramping over individual rights because of the above sentiment is complete BS. officers know what their job entails when they get the job. they should NOT be surprised! but to say that an officer has a right that different from a regular citizen to protect themselves over the rigth of regular people to protect themselves is completely out of line. remember, more civillian die each year being killed by police than the other way around!!!
 
Originally posted by vactor
remember, more civillian die each year being killed by police than the other way around!!!
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Now that is just plain SILLY........................

Put it in a better perspective: There are just HOW MANY civilains killed each year protecting someone they have never met, know nothing about, is not related to, are not friendly with, and will never see again.

Cops die, become disabled, and get seriously injured performing their sworn duty. Like any profession, there are great ones, good ones, average ones, and bad ones. And like any profession; the great, good and average work hard to expose the bad. some folks do not deserve to wear the shield...........PERIOD

And like any other profession, the smart one know their job!!!!

It all boils down to respect. When it's mutual, it's a win-win and when it's not, we all lose.........Ira
 
I would never justify illegal behavior done by a police officer. I was just saying that most civilians would not understand most standard operating proceedures of a police officer, and may view it as negative. Usually they just don't understand why things are done, and may not be able to unless they were in those shoes. Officers actually have less rights as a police officer then a civlian. I can't sue a suspect for personal injury for a job realated injury, but they can sue me even when it was justified. I do not trample over the rights of a suspect, nor would I justify that being done. I do have a right to protect myself in the manner I was trained. I'm not sure why you think that was what I was saying.

Oh, and getting killed is not part of my job. It is a risk, but not a part of the job.
 
I have something to add. I have been on the job for 8 years now and can honestly say I have confiscated 2 knives in all those years. The first was in a box in back of a van I was searching "Incident to apprehension". It was next to a bag of CDS and the blade had residue on it. It was taken as evidence. The second was taken 2 months ago. I was on the way through the front door during a domestic call. The Subject was sitting on top of his wife on the stairs in the house. One hand around her neck and the other gripping a really cheap S&W SWAT knockoff. Needless to say, looking down the barrel of my 92FS showed him the light. That crappy knofe was also taken as evidence. I usually leave people alone even during an arrest if they have a knife.(as long as it's not a factor) I give it back to them at the time of release. If someone is picking them up, I give the knife to that person. I can't say the same for my other brothers in my Dept. It's a discressionary thing. I am not that much of a prick. (ok well, somtimes:D )
 
A convicted prisoner that had to be moved to another prison carried, concealed off course, a small blade he pried out of a safety razor. Very small, blade but sharp. It was taped onder the arch of his foot (prisoners are allowed to wear their plain old civilian clothes). This, I found on a guy that already had been frisked by prison staff (really, lousy job they do every time, it's almost symbolical) and after he passed metal detector. Still wonder what the hell he was up to...
 
I just had to add that folks sometimes think that cops are paranoid. It's in the training!!!! There is so much that an offiv=cer looks for and so much more his trained eye can see that many civilains are blind to a person being armed but to a trained Officer it's like a neon sign.

But this thread had to do with the notion that Cops can and do take knives for their personal use. All auto-knives are illegal here. they are considered "Contraband" and the disposition of any confiscated knife is left up to the discretion of the chief LEO. Any auto-knife become contraband and the court ruled that any and all contraband may be taken and it becomes property of the police to do so as they wish. were there abuses? Probably, but as I have posted many times before it was rare to have a quality auto knife end up in police hands.

If you act like a decent citizen, chances are you have nothing to fear.

Respect and discretion, it goes both ways........Ira
 
My unc was a NY cop, detective and later private investigator. He took knives and guns off people for a variety of reasons. Some of them became the genesis of my collection and sparked my interest in collecting.

He gave me a linoleum knife taken from two miscreants who were fighting in the street. It was the end of shift, he didn't want to do paperwork, popped one in the head, told them to run or they'd be arrested. One guy dropped his knife it was mine. According to my unc, linoleum knives are the "tatical" weapons of certain sub-cultures. I got a German Bowie with stag handles (unattached). Someone my unc was chasing ditched it. My unc picked up later, it became mine. None of the knives were take from "non-criminals" and noone ever complained. My unc also has some guns.

Point of this is that some cops, maybe not all, do confiscate and keep. My unc used to say all good cops practice street justice and know who belongs and who doesn't.
 
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