hey guys, buyers and Makers input please

Ditto, Ditto,& ditto. Get the sheath back return his money, NEVER NEVER make anything for him again. Let us know who he is.
Just think if he ordered 10 more item's from you. Do you have that kind of time.Wash your hands and run like hell.
$.02
Take care
TJ
 
Money back guarantees being a "good idea" are relative to the product.

I make gun grips that sell for about 25 bucks. I offer an unconditional money back guarantee. I don't give a damn why somebody doesn't like it. I don't give a damn why they want to return it. If they fuck it all up beyond recognition and then return it with some sorry ass excuse to why they want a refund, i read the letter with it, i check out the "what the???", laugh, and more than likely make a few "comments" then either i call the guy and ask him "What happened?" let him "explain" then i usually can figure out what really went wrong and recommend he "try again" and i send him another grip. No problem... the guy will then usually fall in love with the product and then come back and buy 5 or so more and recommend them to all his friends and blah blah blah...

Now, on the other hand, if it's obvious the guy is a complete asshole or is just is dead set on getting his money back... (usually cuz his wife got all over his ass for running the card again! hahaha...) i just simply give him his money back... quick and quiet... done deal.

Now, on the other hand... yes, i have three hands... hahaha... i once made a titanium (6-4) fillet knife for a guy... bitchen engraving and the whole bit... DAMN nice knife! SERIOUS sheath...(ain't gonna get hurt with this one...). I've NEVER even heard about much less seen a Ti fillet knife before, and believe me, i've looked, so i figure it's the first one ever made. Point is, this baby is worth a crap load of money...(which i did get for it). OK, so this guy is going fishing... and i says; "...here, go ahead, take it for a spin, tell me what you think, try before you buy... BUT... IF YOU LOSE IT... OR FIUBAR... YOU BOUGHT IT... and looked him straight in the eye when i said it...(he only has one good eye...). He said; "Ok." I said; "Cool." And handed it to him. So, he goes salmon fishing out in the Straight of Juan de Fuca... hands the knife to a Native American on the pier who fillets fish on the pier for a living and says; "Try this and tell me what you think."... and then takes off out in his boat to go catch some fish... comes back (with fish) and asks the guy; "Well, what do you think?" Guy says; "Well, i just filleted about 600 fish with it... how much do you want for this knife?" and offers him several hundred dollars for it. My customer says; This one's mine, but i'll see if i can get one made for you." He then brought the knife back to me, told me the story, and i then fixed a few sharpening scratches on it and delivered the final product.

Moral of the story? If the product is a low cost one but high quality, hey, give the guy his money back if he isn't happy. It will pay you back 10 fold, at least. If it's a really good product, returns will be few and far between. BUT... IF the product is a lot of serious hard work and money and if fucked up can't be fixed and resold... AND you don't offer a money back guarantee on it... and the customer fucks it up...THE CUSTOMER BOUGHT IT.

That's just the reality of life and everybody, including whoever the hell your customer is, knows it.

If you test drive a car and YOU fuck up and crash it... who pays for it? YOU DO! (That's why you have insurance.)

If you buy sheath, and modify it cuz you think you are such an expert sheath designer/engineer/maker and think you know better than the guy who really made it... and you fuck it up... YOU BOUGHT IT the moment you decided to commence the first modifying irreversible changes... AND YOU KNOW IT!

This guy is just trying to play you for a fool and dick you. Just, real nicely, explain to him "the reality"... and if he still can't get a grip on reality, tell him; "Sorry... I can only help you understand so much... the rest is up to you".

Oh, and make sure you get your money out of him if you haven't already. If he "stole" your money... send him an invoice and then turn a bill collector dog lose on his dumb ass.
 
I agree with all of the above, the choices I see are, he modified it he bought it, your reputation is solid enough that you can survive one guy bitching. if it was me, where I would have to be concerned about building a reputation I would probably have to take the hit, have him send the sheath back, and give him a full refund. I would not make him another sheath either way. He IS going to bitch regardless any time your name is mentioned, but if you give him a full refund it really takes away most of his ammunition

-Page
 
Just get the sheath back and give him his money back and move on. That's the best way to protect yourself.
-John
 
I agree, ask for the sheath back, refund him payment and tell him your to busy at this time to make another. Some people are impossible to please and the harder you try the more negative they can become and we all know negative anything isn't good in any business.
Send him to wal-mart. :D

Bill
 
Barker said:
Just get the sheath back and give him his money back and move on. That's the best way to protect yourself.
-John
Click to expand...

I usually don't get into this kind of what's your advice threads. But I have known you on here a long time Dan and appreciate all the effort you have put into helping this site and myself. John took the words right out of my mouth. People like this will walk 5000 miles to cause you trouble. Chalk it up as one of those deals , learn from it and move on.
 
thanks Guys
I was in business for over 20 years selling logging supplies, chain saws and lawn equipment and I didn't have a lot of problem because of manufacture warrantee in writing or if I screwed something up on a repair I'd fix it.. not a problem,

this one was done at a higher price than normal but only because he wanted it fast and the price was his deal, he offered the 200.00.. I understand that the color wasn't what he wanted and why. that I could have changed and I still can for that matter..

Brian I was thinking maybe the same thing, but that remains to be seen once I get it back..

this guy seems to have money to spend when he wants something paying over twice what I call normal I'm sure he wants exactly what he wants.. weather I put the extra time in it or not.. over looking why he paid the extra in the first place..

I guess I need to look at what he did to it first,
then see if maybe I can change it to what he wants ?
and I could always leave his handy work as is, maybe to remind him of what he did to it ?? that would be a slap in the face, would it not :o

if he tells everyone in the world about the deal his way, it won't hurt me,
I have to much work and rep to let that bother me ,

I just don't want to lose a possible good paying customer or.. have I lost what I don't have in the first place in him ? I guess that's my call on this one..
he's not been fair to me in the first place.. this alone should tell me what to do I guess .

I'll let you all know what I deicide,, thanks guys..
 
Dan
You will not have lost a good paying customer. He may burn his bridges wherever he goes. Working in auto repair shops I have seen customers come and then go that can not establish a working relationship with any one shop. That type of person can never be happy and probably suffer buyer's remorse with every expenditure. The unfortunate thing is, there is no lesson to be learned here. It's just an impossible to rectify deal. You can't win with this one.

Alden
 
Alden Sherrodd said:
Dan
You will not have lost a good paying customer. He may burn his bridges wherever he goes. Working in auto repair shops I have seen customers come and then go that can not establish a working relationship with any one shop. That type of person can never be happy and probably suffer buyer's remorse with every expenditure. The unfortunate thing is, there is no lesson to be learned here. It's just an impossible to rectify deal. You can't win with this one.

Alden
Click to expand...


I hear you
I worked for my dad for 9 years in his automotive garage back before I started my own 20 year business in the 80's , some of those guys would cost themselves in mutable diagnosis just by jumping shops all the time, you know the type.. :)
thanks guys..
 
Dan Gray said:
I understand that the color wasn't what he wanted and why. that I could have changed and I still can for that matter..

I guess I need to look at what he did to it first,
then see if maybe I can change it to what he wants ?
Click to expand...

If it was me, that's what I would do. Inform him that you were willing to make him a new sheath, but because he modified the one you sent, it is now his. If it needs to be dyed a darker color, I would do that.

I think communication is important. Call him and give him your view after you look at what he did to it. Ask him how you can come to an amicable solution. If he says only a new sheath will do, I would cut my losses and drop him like a hot potato. Either sending the sheath back as-is or sending him a refund, depending on how charitable you feel. I don't think you are obligated to do anything.
 
Dan,
Thats why I think that the most simplistic solution is to say.....you have altered the sheath so its off the market all together and a new sheath will be x dollars. I can try and salvage your EXISTING sheath at no added cost, but a new sheath will be x dollars. LEt him decide.......I bet he pays for another sheath :)
 
how about offering him these choices?

a. fix the color repair the damage and return it to him

b. new sheath at $XXX, gently explain that the old sheath is as useless to you as it was to him

c. ship him the supplies to make his own damn sheath since he's a pro at it

i feel your name and reputation is on the line, if you return the damaged sheath to him, he'll tell people you did it. people that don't know any better will think that's the kind of work you do (we ALL know better than that but we're informed customers/makers.) now i do back up my knifes and products but with the understanding that abuse voids my warranty (that includes foolish attempts to modify the product.)

just my 2 cents fwiw

Will
formerly known as badbamaump
 
Even if something I buy has a 100 percent money back guarantee, If I take out my knife and cut it up, I have just voided any guarantee. No whining, no ya but the guarantee, nothing. To expect anything else is beyond stupid. He bought it.
 
Dan, try not to "overthink" this situation. It is not worth it.

Look at the damage he did and if it can be fixed tell him how much extra it is going to cost him to have you fix it for him, and that you will fix your part as part of the original deal.

If it can't be fixed, tell him; "Sorry, you ruined it and it can't be fixed. I can make a new one for you but you are going to have to get in line if you want it because i am really busy and can't get to it until i make good on all my other commitments... and a new one is going to cost you $XYZ.oo and i will need payment in advance because i can't afford to extend credit to anyone."

If he bitches (and he will) let him get it out of his system and don't say a word until he either comes around with a "...well... damn... ok then... i'll send you the money."... or... if he doesn't become agreeable and shut up and just bitch bitch bitches... threatening blah blah blah... and continues to be nothing but abusive... just simply hang up on his dumb ass and be done with him. If he calls back, don't say a word, just listen, if he hasn't changed his tune, hang up. And don't feel bad! Smile and laugh it off.

Dan, it's the same with dealing with kids. Be the dad. Spare the rod, spoil the child... so don't spare the rod. Tell him how it is, and if he doesn't like it, too damn bad. Sometimes you have to be "cruel to be kind".

Oh, and remember to smile the whole time... even on the phone. Kill him with kindness. A really smart guy once said; "If you give gifts to your enemy it is like heaping hot coals on their head."

This customer you are dealing with is one from the "Entitlement Generation" (hahaha) and he is a spoiled little baby and thinks he should have whatever he thinks he should have. Just tell Mr. Cartman "No."
 
IMHO "You break it you buy it" applies here. As a buyer, if I did not like the work done, I would have simply returned it, or exchanged it. If I cut it up, I would at least expect to pay to have it fixed, or simply chalk it up to ME making a mistake.
 
Dan as the business owner it's your call. Way back when I managed the KFC's in town and if somebody brought back a bucket of bones and said something was wrong they got their money back(owners policy). Never seemed right to me but it wasn't my decision to make. I'd offer to make the guy a new one but make sure he knows that it's not going to be a rush job and it's only being done once, no more remakes or changes.
 
I don't usually jump into advice threads, since I'm most definitely not a knifemaker, but I work in auto parts, and I handle all of our returns, and warranty items. In my limited experience, it's better to lose the customer than kill yourself trying to accomplish the impossible. Some people cannot be pleased.

Quite a few few people above me in this thread have said, essentially, "give him his money back, it's not worth the bad publicity."

But it's not his money - it's your money. Do you give $200 to every idiot you meet? No? Then why this one?

For the publicity angle, in my limited experience, most people are not stupid. Of the people he may tell of your 'shoddy' work, and bad deal, those who believe him, you don't want as customers. Anyone around him with an ounce of common sense already knows him for what he is, and when they hear his tale, will probably come to the same conclusion many here have, that he fudged his own modification, and tried to get you to fix it.

Life is full of lessons. This is a good one. For both of you.

Prosperity in your endeavors
 
Just like to mention that there is one problem w/ giving the guy's money back. Part of that money paid for a rush order, additional tooling, etc. There was not a problem with any of that. If I was going to give money back, I would break down which charges would be returned. Any charges for a rush order you should keep, since that was performed. Once the guy learns he is not getting all of his money back, he may be more willing to work with you, esp. if your offer to change color/thread for nothing still stands. Your call though.
 
I agree with Any Cal. about the rush charges. If you decide to refund his money you should at least be compensated for doing it in a rush.
 
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