Hey, new to knife making, advice on my current project? (and pics/build thread)

[diablo_man]

Hey guys, Im getting back into knife making. I made one 6 years ago in highschool shop class, and not too much since. a few days ago i picked up an old blank i cut out(Chainsaw bar) and started working on it.

looked like this before annealing

design has an 8 inch long blade(maybe 8.5 inch cutting length after the sweep?) and is pretty thick

Only hand tools so far, threw it i the fireplace to anneal it(got it good and red hot), let it cool and started filing away at it.

started looking a little better with time. a whole lot of time free handing with a bastard file you can see the stamping from the chainsaw bar in this pic, long gone now

and now shaped on both sides, switched to finer single cut file, added in unsharpened swedge(clip point?), and am now on about 120grit wet sandpaper. edge is a bit less than a mm thick, im gonna guess 5mm overall thickness, ill get back to you on that. it is sabre ground out about an inch from the cutting edge

some pretty shots, and close ups on detail

this whole here was part of the chainsaw bar, ive worked around it.

the unsharpened swedge

plan on taking her up to 600 grit, hardening and tempering, polishing up again then possibly forcing a patina on it.

which brings me to my questions. what type of steel is this probably, and how is that going to affect heat treating? approximate temperatures and techniques i should use?

on a design note, anyone have any good tips for the handle? its a different style from my last one, i dont have anything great in mind yet.

 

[Sam Salvati]

Looks good dude! Keep at it. You should of tested the steel to see if it would even harden, I don't know what chainsaw bar is.

 

[diablo_man]

yeah, i kinda jumped in head first on this. oh well, if its only ornamental, ce la vie. it was plenty hard when i first tried filing it, annealing made a huge difference.

i have heard Bar is often made with O1 tool steel, but i might be wrong on that.

 

[duffy99]

Handles micarta/ g-10 with corby rivets ? Easy and a nice finish or some nice wood slabs or a para cord wrap, there are lots of options for a full tang. As for the steel someone else more knowledgeable might know I think it depends on the age of the bar and the manufacturer . If your interested in making more I'd suggest buying some 1084 or O1 they are both relatively inexpensive and can be heat treated at home with the correct knowledge. I'm still new to this and have been using 1084 from Aldo it's cheap and good quality and saves the guessing of mystery steel. Filling out your profile will help there might be a maker near to you .

 

[diablo_man]

oh and for the hell of it, here are some pictures of the first knife i made in shop class. cut out of a sawblade, probably L6, got a 10.5 inch overall,, brass riveted handle and guard. the guard is made out of Bronze, and the handle is purple heart.
plenty of flaws on it, like the "sawback" turned jimping, but its got good heft and a sharp edge

 

[diablo_man]

Handles micarta/ g-10 with corby rivets ? Easy and a nice finish or some nice wood slabs or a para cord wrap, there are lots of options for a full tang. As for the steel someone else more knowledgeable might know I think it depends on the age of the bar and the manufacturer . If your interested in making more I'd suggest buying some 1084 or O1 they are both relatively inexpensive and can be heat treated at home with the correct knowledge. I'm still new to this and have been using 1084 from Aldo it's cheap and good quality and saves the guessing of mystery steel. Filling out your profile will help there might be a maker near to you .

hmm, hadnt thought of going the tactical sorta look with G10, ill have to look into that. i had just been thinking bone or wood slabs, leaving the tang guard unconvered.

yeah ill be bying steel for my next blade for sure. most likely 1084. and i just started on the profile, thanks!

 

[Mike Davis]

Despite the unknown aspect of steel composition, That is a fine looking blade! I would definitely suggest the hand sanding to at least 400 grit before HT. You will save a lot of time when final finishing. Very good job!

 

[diablo_man]

yeah i picked up paper in each size from 120 up to 600 actually. (and my dad has a whole cupboard full of 400 grit, no idea why) on my last one i took it up to about that before Hardening, although i probably shoulda spent more time on the lower grits. i just got impatient and wanted to cut something with it!!

thanks! ive got a bit of an attention for detail, probably comes through in how dang long i spent draw filing that just right lol!

 

[Frank Niro]

You project has come out very well. Remember this is only your second. Try to do the sanding before heat treating and it won't beat you down as much. You could use almost any material for the handles with or without a guard. Frank

 

[diablo_man]

thanks!

Does anyone have any advice for the heat treating and quenching? approximate colour/temperature for heating, the medium to quench in? appropriate temperature for tempering?

any help is greatly appreciated, would be a shame to have spent all this time filing just to screw up the hardening and have it deform or shatter

 

[Mitchell Knives]

Looks great so far; especially since you are doing this with a file!

Good design. I just started working on a knife that looks kind of similar.

It's going to be hard to suggest a heat treating procedure when the steel type is unknown.

 

[diablo_man]

So, from what i have gathered, This steel is most likely O1 tool steel, as that seems to be what Oregon chainsaw bars are made of. although some people say it may also be 1075 steel. (i think o1 and 1075 are similar?)

with that in mind, what would you guys suggest for the best method of heat treating? i will probably be heating using a Tigertorch(though i have Oxy Acetylene available, i figured might be able to get a more evenly applied heat with the propane torch?), and was thinking of quenching in motor oil(got a bunch of new 5w30 kicking around), although ive been looking into brine?

would 450f be an appropriate heat for tempering? i was hoping to achieve around 58-60Rc

 

[diablo_man]

Looks great so far; especially since you are doing this with a file!

Good design. I just started working on a knife that looks kind of similar.

It's going to be hard to suggest a heat treating procedure when the steel type is unknown.

Thanks! it sure gets hard on the muscles doing it by file, my next knife is gonna either be a lot smaller or done on a belt sander(want!)

got any pictures of the one you are working on?

 

[diablo_man]

Any suggestions for heat treating O1 or 1075? i should be at that stage in the next day or two, if i get my torch back

 

[diablo_man]

well its about a month later of on and off again work on this knife
figured i would show the progress though i didnt take enough pictures of the process

anyways, here is the backyard rig i assembled (lol) to heat treat this knife

what you dont see on the left, is a propane tank and a tiger torch. the rest is a piece of a chimney flue, a gigantic magnet and a 5 gallon bucket mostly full of new and used motor oil. and all the pails(long since cleaned up), all on a sand pile.

to test my method, i annealed one of my old knife projects that never quite worked, refiled the blade profile much shallower, and then tried it out!
after tempering (in the kitchen stove, with a heat sensor gun) it looked like this. knife was forged out of hexagonal bar, left over from making cold chisels with. i have no idea of the steel composition.

the knife got insanely sharp(never had a knife this sharp before), and held it after hacking through a 4 inch thick branch. not the most ergonomic chopper as it is all steel one piece construction(a handle wrap of some kind should help) but it is a proof of concept and the heat treating process.

 

[diablo_man]

so, back to the original knife

here is it after being sanded to 400, and then heat treated. it is currently being cleaned down to bare steel with 400grit wet sandpaper.

i went up through 600 before i started work on the handle
i am using two slabs of burled maple, and brass pins(3/16th i believe). after fucking up drilling some stuff(why didnt i just use the press insead of hand drill from the get go??) and ruining two pieces, i started the handles over with more of the same material

used 5 minute epoxy(couldnt find any longer setting clear epoxies) for the final fitting, lots of little drill indents on the inside of the handle scales and heavily scratched up tang, dabs of glue on the pins.

 

[Tinbasher]

A few chainsaw makers use 4130 for the bars if it is 4130 you can only get it to RC54, will cut ok but will need sharpening more often

Richard

 

[diablo_man]

that is entirely possible too. from what i have gathered, the most likely candidated for the type of bar that i am using is a 1075/o1. all oregon says is a "high silicon steel" though, so that doesnt do me much good in narrowing down.

still a lower RC might be a better idea on such a large knife. little tougher.

 

[thegeek574]

your real problem is that if it is 4130, an amazing HT will do nothing, so you will never know unless you pay for analysis. if it is 1075, you have to heat the whole blade to non magnetic and quench. be sure to get it up to non magnetic. check it with a magnet. if it is O1, then a "heat to non magnetic and then quench in motor oil" will work, but will get it nowhere close to it's full potential. however, I think that is the only way you are going to be able to do it, so that is my recommendation.

 

[stevomiller]

Very nice work so far.

Neither 1075 nor O1 would be high silicon steels. It could be 9250-65 or one of the 'S' series of tool steels. My WAG would be one of the 92XX because of lower cost. They are very tough steels commonly used in industry for truck springs and the like, and some of the production sword manufacturers use it as well.