Hi, I'm new... and also an idiot.

A

Altofsky

Joined
Mar 10, 2013
Messages
66
Okay, so I wanted to make a blade on my own without any help at all during the process. This is because I am a very very stubborn man.

I knew I'd wind up making an account here eventually, I just didn't think it'd be during the first blade.

So, long story short as I'm sure you've all heard this kinda crap before...

Yesterday: Profiled me a blade from O1 tool steel. Scribed a center line and gave it a convex grind about halfway up on a 1x30. Left about 1mm on the edge. Satisfied with all that for the first one. All went smoothly.

Today: Built a shit little forge. Hairdryer blew out just as a small portion of the blade was going red. Kicked some shit around, cursed up a storm, then went inside and found a hand-cranked blower from an old fireplace set. Went back outside and cranked that thing harder than I've cranked anything before... even when I was a teenager. Got the coals and the blade glowing red. FORGOT TO CHECK WITH THE DAMN MAGNET. Then quenched in pre-heated vegetable oil.

The damn thing is in the oven right now to temper.

My question is this... how will I be able to tell if I hardened it correctly given that I didn't check with the magnet? Will the thing break on first use? Bend? Deform?

It seemed hard before I put it in the oven. I tried scratching it with a cobalt drill bit and couldn't get anywhere, so I'm hoping it hardened correctly, but still... I'm an idiot for not checking with the magnet.

Okay... rip me apart. Tear me a new one. Any advice/harsh criticism is welcome.

Cheers.
 
After HT you can see if a file bites the edge..... After you temper and sharpen you can do brass rod test where you run the edge against a brass rod to see if it reforms. If it deforms and stays that way it's too soft and you'll need to preheat treat, if it chips its too hard, take the temp up in 25 degree increments. If it deforms then returns you got it right. O1 isn't a good beginner steel, get some 1084 from Also at N.J. steel baron.
 
Welcome to Shop Talk. I'll let the others handle the kind and gentle advice on you procedure :)
 
how long was it red before you quenched it? o1 should only need to be in the non magnetic range for 5 minutes per inch for the thinnest cross section before quenching.
 
Oddly enough, I got the O1 from Aldo at NJ Steel Baron.

And it was going for about 2-3 minutes before I quenched it. 1/4" thick, so maybe that did it?

If it didn't take correctly, it's possible to do it again, yeah?
 
Oh, and no need for being kind or gentle.

I come from a place far more unforgiving.

Rip me apart. :)
 
anneal then re heat treat..... 1084 is far easier to heat treat because of the limited soak times required.
 
Thanks for the information guys. I sincerely appreciate it.

I've definitely got a lot of gray and some black scale on the steel. After tempering for the first round, it got that nice gold color that I've seen before. I don't know. Maybe it worked, but I kinda doubt it.

Is there any way to tell once it's completely cooled down how well it took?
 
I'm sorry but I very much doubt it worked. O1 needs to soak and it needs to be pre-heated . But nice try. Go back to Aldo and get some 1084 if you are going to do it yourself. You will be able do it with a lot of practice. I'm not going to tell you how I know.
 
You are not ready for O-1 grasshopper. O-1 needs good temperature control and a soak time at temperature. Nonmagnetic will not get you there, nonmagnetic for three minutes is not even getting you to first base. Nonmagnetic is 1414, overshooting that is easy to do but thermal transfer within the steel is very slow, if you don't believe me heat a rod quickly while holding it three inches from where the heat is, if the torch is pointing the other way you can melt the steel off before you get burned. Get some 1084

-Page
 
No ripping, I have big respect for my fellow knife people!

Great advice so far, you really need a kiln or a good eye/training to get the mot out of O1. I'd get some 1084 and I'm sure next time you'll remember the magnet. :D We all make mistakes, it is how we deal with them which is important.
 
I'm betting that you probably have a hardened knife. Not positive since I didn't see your 'red hot'. If that means you got it to around 1500 before you quenched it, you have a hard knife. More than likely you won't experience all that 01 has to offer, but most people who start out wanting to make a knife just want to make a freakin' knife that will at least hold an edge.

Let us know how it turns out. What temps are you tempering it at?

And yes, if you didn't do it right, more than likely you can try again. 01 is pretty forgiving. If you have to do it again, take a look at this thread. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1040743-Grain-Size-and-Normalizing-WITH-UPDATED-GRAIN-SHOTS
 
1084 it is, then.

Thanks so much for the honest feedback.

I think Im gonna clean that blade up, put a handle on it and keep it as a memento.

Would it be frowned upon if I asked some more questions once I start with the 1084?

And in the meantime, Ive got a lawnmower blade to mess around with. Any suggestions?
 
Use the lawnmower blade for grinding practice only....it will not make a good knife. Lawnmower blade steel is meant for bending, not for holding an edge.
 
Send that O1 blade out to someone for heat treating, then put a handle on it. No shame in outsourcing your heat treat, and better to have a knife you can actually use than a constant reminder of a perfectly acceptable mistake.

The only thing really frowned upon around here is not filling out your location in your profile.
 
Altofsky said:
Okay... rip me apart. Tear me a new one. Any advice/harsh criticism is welcome.

Cheers.
Click to expand...

Since you're fairly new, I thought I would let you know that you should not be apprehensive about posting any questions or request for advice/tips on this forum. The majority of members are really helpful and have provided me with some awesome and helpful advice and tips. It's a really good community here. Welcome.

:D
 
lawnmower blade - Any Suggestions?
Yes, mow the lawn with the lawnmower blade...don't make a knife from it.

When you get the 1084 here is how to heat treat it:
Get a welding magnet, or other good magnet, and stick it to something right next to the forge. I put mine on the side of the forge.
When heating the steel, occasionally pull it out of the heat source and touch it briefly to the magnet. The point when it stops sticking is the Curie point - 1414F. The critical point is when the steel changes into austenite, and it varies from around 1350F to 1400F. The Curie point does not change, and is a good indication that the steel has converted to austenite. You need to heat the steel about 50-100 degrees hotter that that, so observe the color as it gets non-magnetic. What you want is about one shade of red brighter - 1450-1500F.

After shaping the blade, you need to get it ready for hardening. This is more important in forged blades than ones that were only ground, but the conditioning of the steel is still important.
Heat to around 1600F and quench in 100-120F canola oil.
Heat again until just barely past non-magnetic and quench in 100-120F canola oil.
Heat until just below non-magnetic (still sticks) and let air cool until black, then quench.
The steel now has a fine grain and no stresses. Straighten if needed.

To harden the blade, Heat to 1450-1500F and hold for about one minute just to assure that everything is evenly heated. 1084 needs no extended hold time. Steels like O-1 and 1095 need to be held for 5-10 minutes at a fairly well regulated temperature, and are thus harder to do with simple equipment. 1084 is the home shop friend.
When the blade is at the right temperature, and the heat is even ( avoid overheating the edge and tip), quench in the 100-120F canola oil. Plunge the blade straight down, point first, and only move it either up and down or in a cutting motion. Avoid moving it side to side. After about 10 seconds, pull it out and wipe the oil off with an old rag....careful, it is still HOT. If there is a little warp, you can easily straighten it with gloved hands. If the warp isn't completely removed by the time the steel starts to stiffen up ( at 450F) quit any bending, or it will snap in half.
Let cool in the oil or in the air until the blade can be picked up bare handed. Gently wash the oil residue off the blade, but be careful. the blade is very brittle right now. If you want to make sure the blade hardened, run a file down the edge. It should sing with a high pitched sound, and skate like the blade was glass. There should be no filing going on.

Temper in the kitchen oven at 400F for two hours, take out and cool off in running water, and then bake for two more hours. Test again with the file. It may bite a bit more now, but will still be too hard to file any amount of metal off the blade.

Use sandpaper or a belt grinder to re-grind the bevels, removing the layer of decarb from the surface and edge. This is a thin layer of metal that lost most or all of its carbon during HT. The steel under the decarb is much harder.
Continue to sand/grind the blade to the desired finish, and assemble your knife.
 
Fill out your profile, bud. You may get an invitation to someone's shop. You seem to have the right mentality... even if you claim to be an idiot:p

Sunshadow has it. O1 is not a beginner steel. Get some 1084FG from the Baron and have at it. Set up your forge and work area properly. Dim, consistant lighting is a must. Never heat treat in a lit room or outside during the day. Always keep your piece moving, especially while heat treating. Take time to read the stickies but don't be afraid to ask questions.... if we get tired of your idiocy, we'll just ignore you... no worries:thumbup::p
 
Well, the profile is as filled out as can be now.

Thanks again for the responses. You guys are much kinder than what I'm used to.

As far as the lawnmower blade... I don't have a lawn. I live on the side of a mountain... it's all stones and boulders... yet for some reason the previous owner had a lawnmower. Guess that thing's going on craigslist.

I'm gonna give Aldo a call tomorrow and see if he has some 1084. Going by the website, it shows he's out of stock. But I've heard people have had luck calling up in those cases. The worst he can say is no.

I'm also gonna start reading the archived threads on here. I'm sure there's a metric crap-ton of information that I can learn and I guess I'll ask specific questions from time to time.

Cheers again for all the help.
 
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