HI Seax...

Don't know why we beat ourselves up, the HI scramaseaxe was never meant to be a historical reproduction, just a good knife based on a historical pattern. And it is a good knife, the usefulness and utility of a large blade, with a straight cutting edge and a keen point, illustrates why the style enjoyed such a long life and widespread usage.
I apologize to anybody I may have aggravated in this back and forth discussion, life's short, and there are bigger fish to fry. However, one parting shot, I think we can all agree that the scabbards need to be made longer/deeper, and lose the retaining strap/snap that doesn't really do anything.

Sarge
 
Dave : its nice example you wrote, but its false analogy. One thing is to find something nonstandart and actually have it and the other is to make strange piece of equipment for reenactment and theoretize "that it could probably be so", more than that using inplausable argumentation.

Your example of swords which could be find like ornate/simple - the ratio would be clear, but both would be find elsewhere - man who carried the sword was probably burried with it and those lost on battlefield are found on battlefields.

False analogy again.
 
Kevin, I am not saying that a seax cannot be a simple blade with a simple tang glued into a piece of wood, what I am saying is that it can be quite elaborate if that is what the one paying for it wanted and could afford, just as it is today.
 
FullerH said:
Kevin, I am not saying that a seax cannot be a simp;e blace with a simple tang glued into a piece of wood, what I am saying is that it can be quite elaborate if that is what the one paying for it wanted and could afford, just as it is today.
Click to expand...

It does seem that we are comparing apples and oranges . That is what I like about the Seax . It can be anything from the simplest of first time forging projects as well as something much more ornate .

I myself hope to make a simple one as a first project . It is a basic design that one can elaborate upon as ones skills progress .
 
I agree with you there, Kevin. I intend to make a seax soon. I'll have to find a LARGE file though.:D
 
hawkwind said:
Dave : its nice example you wrote, but its false analogy. One thing is to find something nonstandart and actually have it and the other is to make strange piece of equipment for reenactment and theoretize "that it could probably be so", more than that using inplausable argumentation.

Your example of swords which could be find like ornate/simple - the ratio would be clear, but both would be find elsewhere - man who carried the sword was probably burried with it and those lost on battlefield are found on battlefields.

False analogy again.
Click to expand...

I think they were great analogies. Just look at the drama amongst Roman Empire reenactors about the color of the tunica. Red or bleached/raw? Both sides can back up their arguments. It seems that both were worn, but which is correct for any given time period or legion? We don't know, because no one bothered to record that fact for us, and now we're left guessing. Bearing this in mind, if my legion is wearing white and yours is wearing red, can I really criticize you for it?

And there may be even more colors, if you think about it. We haven't seen pictures of other colors on pottery, nor have we recovered tunicas showing evidence of other dyes (or have we? I'm not up to date on it), but we haven't recovered all the pottery and tunicas of Imperial Rome yet either. We can in good faith say, "As far as we know..." but we cannot say, "This must be so." Absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence, especially when we take into consideration how few of these artifacts survived to present day. We're looking at a very small fraction of what once was.

And this is was the point that I was trying to make in the first place: if reenactors want to agree on certain things that's fine, but remember, no one knows for sure.

BTW, I'm not dealing with seaxes specifically here; I'm talking more about the term "historically accurate," and how it means different things to different people.
 
We lost points in a competition because a woman's scarf was judged to be too bright a blue to have been authentic vegetable dyes. It turns out that the particular blue that she was using is a veggie dye and it is from an identical scarf found in a Danish grave dating from the 4th or 5th Centuries.
 
False analogy is a term of logical falacy. You were attempting to compare pears and apples.

One thing is to have at least something and make logical or educated estimation, other is to do something from lazines or lack of information and look for excuse or fabricate a theory which is not plausible.

The prime example is that Michaels Pierce seax. Fine knife it might be, but it shall be not used by viking reenactor. Further more it is a knife of rather modern construction with brass bolsters and all, so it should probably not be used by reenactor at all.

Now there are two more distinct things - first is reenactment as such, which doesnt requires total autheticity. The things are supposed to look authentic and to serve well, but no one is going to ask whatever a knife si folded steel, or modern one.

Other is living history. This has more to do with experimental archeology.

Now remember we are working here with suspension of disbelief, without that this hobby is worthless.

Color of scarf or tunic - both of you bad analogy. We know what dyes were used. Archeologists can confirm it by the means of spectral analysis or we do have a written account.

Experimental archeology or living history attempts and confirm this through experiment e.g. making a period fabric and dyeing it with confirmed dye and stabiliser.

Reenactor is the person who profits from all this.

My personall opinion is that mediaval reenactment in U.S. is very bad quality and that these people atempting to do something but dont have real link to this history.
On the other hand civil war reenactment can be probably pretty good.

You might not understand what I m saying but if you here in my place want to build house, first thing they come and dig around for a settlement site. Mostly finding something. Our annual event happens on a 9. century trading place which was about as big as Hedaby at the time and site of powerful prince. The biggest longhall in europe stood there. Only 3% of supposed volume of artefact was ever dug out. When we setting up our tents and dig the fire place we are finding things and take water from a spring which goes to bog which was place of sacrifice. Its 30 minutes by car from my house. We do set up a reenactment battle there and when the audience leaves at the evening, the place starts to speaks..........
That is not unusual here. Everything here is like this. My house stands 200 meters from a 14. century castle ruins which was one of hardest fortresses of the time...half of the houses in the vilage stands IN the former castle itself and its build from its stone.

This is old land.

As I said you might never understand this.
 
That said or company has about 20 members now - 4 are archeologist, 2 etnologist some etnograph and further more. So I dont need to turn for information to unreliable source. These are the people actually digging things out.
The other company we are cooperating is of the same cut.
 
hawkwind said:
False analogy is a term of logical falacy. You were attempting to compare pears and apples.

One thing is to have at least something and make logical or educated estimation, other is to do something from lazines or lack of information and look for excuse or fabricate a theory which is not plausible.

The prime example is that Michaels Pierce seax. Fine knife it might be, but it shall be not used by viking reenactor. Further more it is a knife of rather modern construction with brass bolsters and all, so it should probably not be used by reenactor at all.
Click to expand...
You have a problem with brass? The Romans used brass, calling it "orichalcum". Please see the following from a site on Roman coinage:
"Orichalcum = brass, a yellowish alloy of copper with zinc. It was used extensively for coinage in the Imperial period, principally for the sestertius and dupondius denominations. As the dupondius was not significantly heavier than its half, the copper as, orichalcum was clearly more highly prized, perhaps being officially overvalued to the benefit of the government."
If the Romans had it, it can be assumed, I believe, that the others had it. If nothing else, there were a large number of Roman coins around made of the stuff.

Now there are two more distinct things - first is reenactment as such, which doesnt requires total autheticity. The things are supposed to look authentic and to serve well, but no one is going to ask whatever a knife si folded steel, or modern one.

Other is living history. This has more to do with experimental archeology.

Now remember we are working here with suspension of disbelief, without that this hobby is worthless.

Color of scarf or tunic - both of you bad analogy. We know what dyes were used. Archeologists can confirm it by the means of spectral analysis or we do have a written account.

Experimental archeology or living history attempts and confirm this through experiment e.g. making a period fabric and dyeing it with confirmed dye and stabiliser.

Reenactor is the person who profits from all this.

My personall opinion is that mediaval reenactment in U.S. is very bad quality and that these people atempting to do something but dont have real link to this history.
On the other hand civil war reenactment can be probably pretty good.

You might not understand what I m saying but if you here in my place want to build house, first thing they come and dig around for a settlement site. Mostly finding something. Our annual event happens on a 9. century trading place which was about as big as Hedaby at the time and site of powerful prince. The biggest longhall in europe stood there. Only 3% of supposed volume of artefact was ever dug out. When we setting up our tents and dig the fire place we are finding things and take water from a spring which goes to bog which was place of sacrifice. Its 30 minutes by car from my house. We do set up a reenactment battle there and when the audience leaves at the evening, the place starts to speaks..........
That is not unusual here. Everything here is like this. My house stands 200 meters from a 14. century castle ruins which was one of hardest fortresses of the time...half of the houses in the vilage stands IN the former castle itself and its build from its stone.

This is old land.

As I said you might never understand this.
Click to expand...
So, you must live in Europe to re-enact Europe.
 
"Romans used bras" - red herring. We are talking vikings.THey used bras too but not fr the purpose of bolsters on knife. There is no such viking knife as the Pierces seax or it is significant deviation of form.


"So you must live in europe....." Point me to a decent reenactment group in U.S. which depicts viking or dark ages.

Why is that best viking reenactment group is russian and dark ages german?
- I m telling you things here look different.
 
As an aside, I had not intended to use the Pearce "Hand sax" as a Norse item, more as an Anglo-Saxon item, if at all. I am not yet decided. I already have a belt knife for my Norse impression. It is a very nice little piece made Norway that is not a seax design but a plain old knife design as the Norwegians have been using for over a millennium. It is The Viking by Helle. Please see this page for more discussion on it:
http://www.ragweedforge.com/HelleCatalog.html
 
I know Helle knives and as much as I like them I wouldnt use one for reenactment. It has ricasso after all.

As I said, you might not understand.
 
back to the beginning
Krull said:
So all how about a redesign? I made a quick and dirty sketch on my paint program,and used seax repros I'd seen around I don't think the Kami's would have any trouble since there's no guard (it's bulit in) and has the wood scales bolted on-have a look.
(it's a thumbnail click on it)
Click to expand...
martindale makes a machete very much like that::D
machete.gif
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top