High Performance Hand Axe - A Photo Essay

LOL that link is definetely a gateway drug.

Before I read it, i had the "an axe is an axe" mentality. After reading it, I wanted a Hudson Bay head for a hatchet or cruiser axe, a Jersey head for felling and bucking, a Michigan for limbing, and a maul for splitting, LOL.

[Homer Simpson] Doh! Stupid. . .good information. . .cost. .me. .fortune. . .mmmmm, donuts. [/Homer Simpson]
 
robin wood said:
I can see that it may appear a rather adversarial first post for which I apologise.

Have a look at this chap to see high skill level with a cheap axe.

This one is me with a Gransfors carving axe.
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No problem, it just struck me that you signed up just to be critical. After viewing your video I see you have some credentials to speak about axes and I hope you continue as I for one am interested in learning from all, including Brian.

For me as a city dweller in Houston, the available wood is oak for a fireplace. I find it difficult to split with a heavy splitting ax. I have learned to pick out very straight grained pieces which are easier. What I think is more misleading is to have a video where a small tap by a small ax magically causes the wood to split perfectly (see the wetterlings thread video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCNDmo0DAEc). I have seen knife battoning demonstrations do the same thing. I once asked what kind of wood that was and was told it was Aspen or something. Granted the video is to teach technique but why not use a more realistic kind of wood. When I am in the woods I hope I find that kind of wood. Maybe someone should do a video on how to locate the easiest to split wood.
 
briangandrews said:
I have used the GB for quite some time. Even though the overall size is roughly the same, this is really a different animal all together.

I was using them both today, doing lots of side by side. There is no question that the S&N rules for splitting. But, the "feel" for chopping is drastically different.

The GB feels very light an nimble. It bits in good. I have the S&N biting deeper, but has a less nimble feel. Kind of like hitting like a ton of bricks. If that makes any sense :D I just love axes :thumbup: As if you have never heard me say that before :D



No I have not. I really want to, but I have been a bit side-tracked. I had been working on getting an account with S&N for some time, and when it finally came through, I have been up to my elbows in boxes of axes.

I also have a batch of my own knife design that I have been working on, so getting a hold of a martindale as fell down the list. I am sure I will get to it before too long. You don't happen to have one you want to send me......do you? :D

B
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Lol! I'll probably end up sending the Martindale and the Ontario to you eventually for your grinding mods!
:D
However i think i'll play with them as they are for now as i still haven't really had a chance to use them seriously yet. I was hoping to get out of town up to my sister place for threes or four days this month but that may have to wait til November. My sister has about 40 acres of land out in farm country and over half that land is trees so i will get to chop to my hearts content! lol.
I'm hoping to try some shelter-building and whatnot as well.
I've been stuck in town all summer so i could really use a wilderness/woods break. At least i'm ready with the cutting chopping tools!
:)

And yeah depending on finances i think a GB will be on my shopping list for next year.
lol!
 
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This is a great thread!

I wanted a Gransfors Bruks for a long time until I saw a picture of the geometry from above. I have seen a lot of old American axes and none of them are so pronounced from the bit to the eye. I assume that the Gransfors Bruks are set up for softwoods while a typical American axe is set up for hardwood.

I have been looking at Snow & Nealley axes as well as others and would like to throw out a few questions.

Since the Penobscot and Hudson bay both have the same head weight why do you prefer the Penobscot?

It seems to me that the Hudsons extra 6" would add very little weight and bulk but would allow you a more powerful swing and you could choke up on it when necessary.

I have read that the Hudson bay pattern is not very good for splitting because the handle is wider than the lower beard part of the bit.

Any comments or observations on this?

I have also been looking at these heads.

http://www.bensbackwoods.com/servlet/Categories?category=Axes:Oxhead

Anyone have any experience with them?
 
bigox said:
Since the Penobscot and Hudson bay both have the same head weight why do you prefer the Penobscot?

It seems to me that the Hudsons extra 6" would add very little weight and bulk but would allow you a more powerful swing and you could choke up on it when necessary.

I have also been looking at these heads.

http://www.bensbackwoods.com/servlet/Categories?category=Axes:Oxhead

Anyone have any experience with them?
Click to expand...

For me i bought the S&N because
A)i always wanted one
B)i wanted a larger (than hatchet) sized hudson bay pattern axe
C)i wanted an axe with an in-between overall length (15-22 inches), in between hatchet and full sized axe.
D)its still just short enough to to fit in either of my two rucksacks.
If you go by Mors Kochanski's method for choosing a handle length this handle fits me near perfect.

I bought one of those 1.3 pound Oxhead axeheads from Bensbackwoods a couple of weeks ago.
Build quality is good but the eye is smaller than i though it would be.
The website does list the correct measurements the mistake was totally my own misreading.
I bought a handle for it before i ever got it, its the right length but its way too big for the eye.
I have a long hunk of oak that i may shape into a handle for it.
I put a temp handle on it and played around with it a couple of times at the woodpile.
Feels good in the hand and cuts well, although you will have to file it a bit to get it profiled and sharp.
Despite its relatively light weight i would definitely go with a 15 inch or longer handle.
BE FOREWARNED YOU MAY HAVE TROUBLE FINDING A LONG HANDLE THAT WILL FIT THE OXHEADS SMALL HATCHET SIZED EYE.
ok thats enough of the capslock,lol!
Of course i may be able to mod the long handle i have to fit it (time will tell).
With the temporary handle installed it was about 13-14 inches overall length.
To me that felt too heavy and off balanced for that handle length.
I figure 15 inches or longer handle is better for this head.
But that may just be me, lol.
If i don't mod the bought handle i may make the homemade handle the same length and shape as the S&N Penobscot bay handle, as i've grown to like its nobby end.
lol.
 
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bigox said:
I have been looking at Snow & Nealley axes as well as others and would like to throw out a few questions.

Since the Penobscot and Hudson bay both have the same head weight why do you prefer the Penobscot?. . .
Any comments or observations on this?
Click to expand...

Because the Pen Bay at 18" fits completely in all but my smallest pack.
The Pen Bay is easier to use one handed, either at the end of the haft or choked up on the head.
The Pen Bay can be used two handed quite well by grabbing the bulge with the offhand, and the strong hand being right above it.
As for splitting problems, I've never had a problem dur to the beard of the axe. Unless you basically overshoot splitting a very small diameter round, the wood will ride up at least part of the face of the head and split enough to not hit the haft. I've split rounds big enough in diameter that the Pen Bay head wouldn't quite reach the center with the end of the beard just inside the outer diameter. I whacked it on one side, then hit the round on the diametrically opposed side, which finally split it in two. Neither time did the wood haft make contact with the wood being split.
 
Brian I notice you carry the aforementioned axe. I have been attempting to find a S%N dealer for a while now every time I type in their name for an internet search I get hundreds of hits about everything but their tools or axes. How can I find a full line dealer do you know their web address?

As to this axe fitting in your rucksack, I usually attach mine to the side with straps. But then I use an old swiss mountain ruck. The pack is heavier than these newer ones but it is stout and lasts.
 
Thank you Brian for the answer. Allthough it would be very interesting to know the hardness and steel composition you don't need to go through the extra trouble in finding the info. It doesn't seem to anywhere to be found from the net...but then again I guess you could use the information on your webshop. Some axenuts like all that techie stuff :)

How would you compare the edge retention of the S&N and the GB axes? If the S&N has an edge over the GB here too I can't see much left for the GB to compete with...
 
wildmike said:
Brian I notice you carry the aforementioned axe. I have been attempting to find a S%N dealer for a while now every time I type in their name for an internet search I get hundreds of hits about everything but their tools or axes. How can I find a full line dealer do you know their web address?

As to this axe fitting in your rucksack, I usually attach mine to the side with straps. But then I use an old swiss mountain ruck. The pack is heavier than these newer ones but it is stout and lasts.
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Forestry Suppliers and Ben Meadows both carry S&N axes. They are reputable suppliers for foresters and outdoors trades. Just type snow & nealley in their search device at either web site.
http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/
http://www.benmeadows.com/
 
bigox said:
This is a great thread!

I wanted a Gransfors Bruks for a long time until I saw a picture of the geometry from above. I have seen a lot of old American axes and none of them are so pronounced from the bit to the eye. I assume that the Gransfors Bruks are set up for softwoods while a typical American axe is set up for hardwood.
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I don't think Gransfors are really set up for softwoods more than hardwoods, Sweden is mixed hardwood south of Stockholm and the UK is predominantly mixed hardwoods very similar to US timbers. When folk say American timbers were different they were talking about felling first growth trees. I don't expect many of you are looking to do that with your little pack axes.

I personally would not think GB are good value in the US but that is primarily due to the state of the dollar. A SFA costs about the equivalent of 8 hours work at minimum wage in the UK, ten years ago your dollar bought £1 now it buys just over half that in that situation I would buy local. In fact I look at the price of nice old axe heads on ebay in the US and there is no way I would buy a new one buy an old beauty and give it a new life.

HornyToad said:
No problem, it just struck me that you signed up just to be critical. After viewing your video I see you have some credentials to speak about axes and I hope you continue as I for one am interested in learning from all, including Brian.
Click to expand...

I came here because I have an interest in axes and found the post interesting. To me it is sad that most folk just seem to see the thread as saying buy a S&N not a Gransfors. I don't like to see any one tool up on a pedestal, rather take the excellent advice about setting up your axe and apply it to whatever you have, gransfors, S&N, old ebay axe or cheap diy store axe, all will perform well if well sharpened and used with skill. A polished S&N or GB will not make a skilled axman.
 
HornyToad said:
No problem, it just struck me that you signed up just to be critical. After viewing your video I see you have some credentials to speak about axes and I hope you continue as I for one am interested in learning from all, including Brian.

For me as a city dweller in Houston, the available wood is oak for a fireplace. I find it difficult to split with a heavy splitting ax. I have learned to pick out very straight grained pieces which are easier. What I think is more misleading is to have a video where a small tap by a small ax magically causes the wood to split perfectly (see the wetterlings thread video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCNDmo0DAEc). I have seen knife battoning demonstrations do the same thing. I once asked what kind of wood that was and was told it was Aspen or something. Granted the video is to teach technique but why not use a more realistic kind of wood. When I am in the woods I hope I find that kind of wood. Maybe someone should do a video on how to locate the easiest to split wood.
Click to expand...

I had to use soft wood because its the main wood up here, that and poplar, but not as comon as softer wood. Your lucky to find hard wood around, at least within 60km of town.:rolleyes:

But its mainly location, If I had some dry hardwood it would split just the same, last year in Nova scotia I was splitting some well dried Birch and and nice and dry pine, but it still worked the same. If I can get my hands on hard wood I'll put that up as well.
 
{Welcome to BF:WSS Robin Wood! Hope to see you around more often, it's always good to see new faces here. It's a very agreeable and friendly locale. :thumbup:}
 
robin wood said:
rather take the excellent advice about setting up your axe and apply it to whatever you have, gransfors, S&N, old ebay axe or cheap diy store axe, all will perform well if well sharpened and used with skill.
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Absolutely, that is what this thread is about. It is not about the S&N axe specifically. However, it is one that I have found that can be set up properly.

However, I do not think....actually, I take that back. I KNOW that not every axe can be set up properly, at least for my needs. Sure you can take care of the first inch or so. But a well rounded tool has to take the entire head geometry into account.

Here are some examples:
- Vaughn mini - the eye is too thin and will not allow for proper grinding. This geometry change occurred AFTER Bark River made them famous.
- I have a Craftsman in my shed that can not be set up.
- The GB SFA. There is no metal in the area approaching the rather large eye. Smooth and even transitions just can not be made with no metal.
- Fiskars - At risk of offending a lot of folks here, you can't grind plastic.
- Estwing - I can not speak for all, but I have one Estwing that is concave the entire side face.

I do have a Collins vintage that is up on the block next. I honestly think it is going to yet outperform this S&N. But, it also needs a handling job, and they are hard to come by.

robin wood said:
A polished S&N or GB will not make a skilled axman.
Click to expand...

That goes without question. I realize that you are new and are missing a bit of the history of the forum. There has been MANY posts here about axemanship, discussion, pictures and videos. There is a lot of skill in this forum. I can almost name from memory the forum members that posted in those posts by their forum name and their real name.

There are a lot of educated folks here. When I posted this, proper axe technique was already assumed.

I will gladly post pics of the Collins before and after mod as well too, if that is of interest to people here.

Brian
 
Cpl Punishment said:
I've heard it said by a LOT of people that the GB is hell on conifers, but not so great on deciduous hardwoods. Most say the bit is too thin and gets stuck rather than blast out chips.
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There may be some truth to that. My experience isnt comprehensive enough to say for sure though. Almost all of the pine/spruce/fir I've chopped has been dead and seasoned, and it literally does blast chunks out, I've chopped through 4" logs in 5 swings with the 19" SFA no problem, but bucking up some Siberian Elm from the yard thats only been down for a few months was a completely different story, every other swing the axe would wedge, and wedge good.

That Elm is some horrible stuff though, especially for splitting, the grain is just so twisted and it just refuses to come apart. I couldnt split a 5-6" round by battoning with a big knife (dog father or ranger RD7) and even with the 24" GB it took some serious work.

One problem I've found with the GB axes and splitting has been illustrated, it tapers too much, but more than just a loss of wedging efficiency, if you hit the middle of a bigger round the axe will bite in, but not wedge it far enough apart to allow the handle to pass into the crack, instead the handle gets smashed into the piece your trying to split. I've got to be careful to only hit it with the top 3/4 of the bit.
 
Do those who have found limitations with the GB's, find the same difficulties with the profiles of the Wetterlings?
 
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