High Value, Budget, EDC Knives, narrowed down. Advice Wanted...

[GatorFlash1]

Spyderco Tenacious and Ontario Rat are the knives that got me started down this rabbit hole.

My reason for moving past the Tenacious was it's more expensive than anything else on this list with lesser quality steel. Feels like you're paying for the name, with that one (although undoubtedly a decent knife!).

My reason for keeping the Rat 2 on deck while looking at other options is the substantial number of reviews pointing to knives like the Elementum as both construction and steel quality improvements at a similar price point.

QSP's website is garbage, so thanks for the heads up on the Penguin. Parrot looks maybe even more up my alley. Only criticisms I've read are that they're not the most ergonomic knife out there.

Thank you!

If you think the Tenacious and related knives are crap, I wonder if you have ever used one. Their Resilience is a larger knife which comes in two forms, the basic model and the model that was released recently with higher grade S35VN steel. Here is some info about each model. I have used both and find them better than many other affordable knives.

 

[Truesome]

If you think the Tenacious is crap I wonder if you have ever used one. They come in two forms, the basic model and the special model that was released recently with higher grade steel. Here is some info about each model. I have used both and find them better than many other affordable knives.

I don’t “think they’re crap.” I’m sure their upgraded lineup is impressive. Forum consensus seems to be there are better values out there in this price range. I’m just not seeing anything of their basic 8Cr13MoV models under $50. (The one in your video above is over $100.) The help here is very much appreciated.

 

[jstn]

In your price range, the CJRB Lago is hard to beat. I'd suggest going up a few bucks for the Civivi Conspirator.

 

[nhobo]

Civivi Imperium. Very similar to the Elementum but with thumb stud and front flipper.

Maybe a little bigger than you're looking for (3.5" blade, same as the Elementum) but this carries and handles well. A lot of knife for $50.

 

[Truesome]

In your price range, the CJRB Lago is hard to beat. I'd suggest going up a few bucks for the Civivi Conspirator.

Oooh, that conspirator looks cool. Now you guys are just getting fancy .

 

[Truesome]

Gotta say, for $28.99 shipped (half the Civivi), this PF is looking like a front-runner...

$75 breaks the bank for my purposes, but this 154CM Kizer sure is pretty...

 

[bdmicarta]

I don’t “think they’re crap.” I’m sure their upgraded lineup is impressive. Forum consensus seems to be there are better values out there in this price range. I’m just not seeing anything of their basic 8Cr13MoV models under $50. The help here is very much appreciated.

I've owed a Tenacious for a long time and have recently been using it as my camping/hiking knife. I just bought another one from the exchange, a LW model, one that everybody else has passed over. It will become my new camping knife. I think a used Tenacious is a pretty good value. I've looked for used Civivi and such and haven't had much luck. The Tenacious is not flashy or exciting, but I want it to use as a knife and it will work well for that. With Spyderco you know what quality you are getting, with Civivi or similar you don't know exactly what you are getting. With all of the positive comments I still want to try Civivi someday.

 

[DangerZone98]

Unsolicited opinion I know, but if you’re worried about dirt or gunk affecting your knife, I suggest getting a fixed blade instead. Morakniv has plenty of good choices. I personally carry the Eldris on some days.

 

[Chronovore]

I've owed a Tenacious for a long time and have recently been using it as my camping/hiking knife. I just bought another one from the exchange, a LW model, one that everybody else has passed over. It will become my new camping knife. I think a used Tenacious is a pretty good value. I've looked for used Civivi and such and haven't had much luck. The Tenacious is not flashy or exciting, but I want it to use as a knife and it will work well for that. With Spyderco you know what quality you are getting, with Civivi or similar you don't know exactly what you are getting. With all of the positive comments I still want to try Civivi someday.

Criticism that the Tenacious costs way too much for the materials is sound. The base model is FRN and 8Cr13Mov. Too many other companies are offering 9Cr18Mov, D2, or even 14C28N at this price level. While 9Cr18Mov is already a significant step up from 8Cr13Mov in both edge retention and corrosion resistance, WE gives it an exceptional heat treatment in the Civivi, Sencut, and Ferrum Forge knives. It's a solid EDC steel and honestly, I'd take it over the Chinese D2 any day.

There are issues with Chinese D2. It just doesn't deliver the edge retention you'd expect from a lot of charts, such as Larrin's ratings on blade steel. Speculation on why includes variation on vanadium levels and challenges in mass-production heat treatment. Some companies seem to do better than others. Curiously, Petrified Fish seems to do one of the better jobs with budget D2 and offers some of the most affordable options down around $30. (Closer to $50, they switch to Bohler K110.) Despite the variation, Chinese D2 is still a safe bet over 8Cr13Mov on edge retention.

While I like Spyderco, coming in short on the budget end isn't my only issue. Their knives can be a pain in disassembly/reassembly and they frown upon you doing that. I tend to tinker but at the very least, I like to take knives apart for a thorough cleaning, inspection, and quality lubing when I get them. Being able to do that with modern folders is important to me. Most of the other brands here are relatively quick and easy. Most use quality hardware and more brands have been moving to T8 body screws. While I've only had two versions of the Tenacious, both had centering issues and I could never quite get them where I wanted. Among the many dozens of knives I've had on bearings from Kizer, Bestech, Petrified Fish, WE and their sub-brands; centering issues have been rare enough that I can't think of an example.

 

[Chronovore]

... Looking in the $30-50 range, modern style, ~3 inch blade. I've narrowed it down to (in no particular order):

Civivi - Mini Praxis
Civivi - Elementum
Ontario - Rat 2
Petrified Fish - Flavorist (drop point)
Petrified Fish - 818
Sencut: Neches
QSP- Hawk

I'm leaning away from Micarta, which means I'm leaning toward Civivi or Sencut. Not sure I need/want D2 (rust?), and the Sencut is 10Cr15CoMo, although I suspect the steel on any of these is more than adequate. (Handle on the Sencut doesn't look as ergonomic as the others, but hard to know without having it in hand. Thoughts?). I know the Rat has been the standard-bearer for a while but just keep reading about some of these newer knives being a step ahead. Just looking for a low maintenance knife that can take a beating, take camping, hold up under whatever and I'm not crying a river if it gets lost....

I can recommend all of the brands here except QSP. I'm only one guy but I've had an absurdly high lemon rate from QSP.

I spoke a bit about Chinese D2 in my last post. Petrified Fish is easily the best bang for the buck in that steel. The PF818 has remained a "best buy" among budget knives since it came out. My only real complaint with Petrified Fish is that they tend to have crisp scale edges. Not everyone cares about that sort of thing and not everyone seems to notice. I tend to round scale edges on lots of knives though. A more substantial upgrade I did to my 818 was a $12 set of Skiff bearings. The action was already good. Skiff bearings just take it to the next level, generally improving the balance between good action and solid lock-up. (Aside from high quality, they run more balls in a sturdier cage for greater stability.)

The Sencut Neches was actually my favorite knife of 2022. It is a fairly basic design but they just nail it for what it is. The action is good, it feels great in hand, and I love the blade shape. 10Cr15CoMov is effectively VG-10 and that's a solid value at around $45. (Of course, this is another one I liked enough for a Skiff bearing upgrade.) Forgive me if I missed it, but why the aversion to Micarta?

 

[SomebodySomewhere]

Deleted.

 

[Lyndino]

Re: QSP: I am considering the Hawk, but the Amazon reviews on their QC are all over the map. Not eager to gamble when there are so many good options.

A little advice if you don't already know, if you're looking at reviews (pretty much anywhere) pay attention to the 3star review the most. In my experience they are the most unbiased you will find. Most 1star are pure haters and probably don't understand the intended purpose of the product while 5star seem most likely to be paid praises.
Just my opinion.

 

[Truesome]

There are issues with Chinese D2. It just doesn't deliver the edge retention you'd expect from a lot of charts, such as Larrin's ratings on blade steel. Speculation on why includes variation on vanadium levels and challenges in mass-production heat treatment. Some companies seem to do better than others. Curiously, Petrified Fish seems to do one of the better jobs with budget D2 and offers some of the most affordable options down around $30. (Closer to $50, they switch to Bohler K110.) Despite the variation, Chinese D2 is still a safe bet over 8Cr13Mov on edge retention.

I spoke a bit about Chinese D2 in my last post. Petrified Fish is easily the best bang for the buck in that steel. The PF818 has remained a "best buy" among budget knives since it came out. My only real complaint with Petrified Fish is that they tend to have crisp scale edges. Not everyone cares about that sort of thing and not everyone seems to notice. I tend to round scale edges on lots of knives though. A more substantial upgrade I did to my 818 was a $12 set of Skiff bearings. The action was already good. Skiff bearings just take it to the next level, generally improving the balance between good action and solid lock-up. (Aside from high quality, they run more balls in a sturdier cage for greater stability.)

Wow, man, thank you for taking the time to write all of that up.

A few remaining questions, if you're up for it:

1) PF fish seems to be getting better reviews for their D2 over other makers. Is it even worth the K110 uncharge (say, on the Flavorist)?
2) Price aside, what do you think of the Flavorist vs 818? Reports are their Micarta isn't the best, and it's a front flip, but what do you think?
3) Rough scales: do you file the edges?

The Sencut Neches was actually my favorite knife of 2022. It is a fairly basic design but they just nail it for what it is. The action is good, it feels great in hand, and I love the blade shape. 10Cr15CoMov is effectively VG-10 and that's a solid value at around $45. (Of course, this is another one I liked enough for a Skiff bearing upgrade.) Forgive me if I missed it, but why the aversion to Micarta?

The Sencut Neches caught my eye for those reasons. It's on the short list for sure. And, no aversion to Micarta. Just saw that it's more variable from maker to maker than G10.

Bonus question: Price aside (I realize this is a "value" thread, but I'm curious), what do you think of Kizer? Specifically the Kizer Cozy?

THANK YOU!

 

[Dav1]

I know it isn't on your list and you may have discounted it but if not the Ruike 801 is a superb little knife. They do a great job on the 14c28n, although I'm a bit biased as it's one of my favourite steels regardless of price.

 

[Whitedog]

Ontario Rat2 D2 hard to beat for a daily user. Wipe the blade off if it gets moisture on it.

 

[Chronovore]

1) PF fish seems to be getting better reviews for their D2 over other makers. Is it even worth the K110 uncharge (say, on the Flavorist)?

I'm not sure. I haven't used it and I have not seen it reliably tested. The theory is that K110 is basically German D2 but is made to stricter quality controls than the usual Chinese D2. So in other words, it feels like an answer to one of the two potential issues I raised regarding Chinese D2. While I wouldn't expect the heat treatment to compare with customs or American knives costing three times as much or more, it at least seems to make sense as a modestly priced upgrade for companies who mostly work with Chinese D2.

2) Price aside, what do you think of the Flavorist vs 818? Reports are their Micarta isn't the best, and it's a front flip, but what do you think?...

I haven't tried the Flavorist. It's obviously a different design. Dovetailing with some of the other benefits you gave for this price range, there is a fairly low barrier of entry to just trying it out.

... no aversion to Micarta. Just saw that it's more variable from maker to maker than G10.

While G10 is fiberglass set in resin, Micarta is a diverse class of materials involving fabrics set in resin. Micarta can be finished in different ways to achieve different effects, from smooth polishes to fuzzy bead blasts. Honestly, that's all part of the fun with Micarta. What you like will depend on you.

The only Micarta I have handy from Petrified Fish is their "Flax Micarta". While nothing to write home about, I definitely prefer it to G10. One of the things I really like about the Sencut Neches is the particular finish they do on that Micarta. It is a good example of a slightly fuzzy finish that feels soft to the touch while still being resistant to the elements.

3) Rough scales: do you file the edges?

It's more an issue of coming to crisp edges than overall roughness. For instance, the line created by a hard 90-degree transition can be uncomfortable to some people. I tend to round those over via sanding. Coincidentally, I've found that my wife's two-sided emery boards are perfect for most average G10 and Micarta (polished finishes require finer grits). Just start with the coarse side and finish with the fine side.

(Note that the dust created by sanding is bad for your lungs. While hand-sanding small areas on scales doesn't generate a ton of dust, definitely do it outside or take other precautions to avoid breathing it into your lungs.)

Bonus question: Price aside (I realize this is a "value" thread, but I'm curious), what do you think of Kizer? Specifically the Kizer Cozy?

I'm a big fan of Kizer. If you follow the EDC picture thread, you'll see their knives in my pocket on a regular basis; including several examples of modified scales.

The Cozy is a cool knife but the handle contour just did not fit my hand very well.

 

[fishface5]

Civivi Cogent is a little slimmer and snappier than the conspirator. I modded this one for better ergos. Hit me up if interested - I have too many knives!

 

[Therom]

The civivi elementum is a nice one

In order to add to your thinking, my personal best value knife is the Ruike p801
stainless steel scales, 14c28n blade, great action, deep carry clip and a design reminding the Sinkevich ZT0450

 

[FOG2]

Tuff Lite full size. Nuff said.

 

[The Hawk]

Another vote for the Cold Steel Tuff Lite. Mine is part of my EDC gear.