SomebodySomewhere
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The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
High Value, Budget, EDC Knives, narrowed down. Advice Wanted...
- Thread starter Truesome
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SomebodySomewhere
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Oh, believe me, you don't want a thick blade, thin blade give cutting performance. The tasks you listed in your initial post "package opening, twine cutting, some box cutting" are all light duty, which are better with high cutting performance, and as EDC, it should be more convenience. Most people here recommend you after that criteria (like flipper, liner lock, etc). A 2.5mm (0.10") is perfectly acceptable for a 7.5cm (3") blade. Opinel is renowned for cutting performance is even thinner for longer blade and not using any exceptional steel.
None of your options are really for any "heavy" use anyways (heavy as in more than just cutting). Per my 1st reply, being heavier doesn't mean stronger, it's the false feeling of being more solid. Overbuilt is easy.
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I'm not an expert either, but (like you) I've been reading a ton. Sounds like whatever WE/Civivi/Sencut is doing with 9CR and whatever P. Fish is doing with D2 are all impressive. Bunch of YouTubers doing cut counts and comparing brands and metals, concluding this. But I'm with you. Whatever Victorinox uses on their Swiss army knives has been a little flimsy for some purposes, but the 420HC on my Buck knife has been great for my purposes.
Sounds about right, thank you. So I've kept a knife in my pocket for light daily use (medium duty on camping trips etc) for about 30 years, but I'm new to the whole world of modern (to me, anything but traditional Buck/Swiss Army kinds of knives). And even with intense interest and capacity to learn and read and research for hours on end this past few weeks, I'm still discovering new models and am somewhat saturated with the endless models out there. At the end of the day (literally today), I just went with the one that was half the price of the Pintail for my lighter option. I don't think anyone looks at the Fritch and thinks "overbuilt." Although, I can't promise to NEVER use the knife as a screwdriver or in place of a utility knife in a pinch and really dislike a knife that flexes in the hand. And honestly, do I really need super steel on an ultra thin blade?
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Nah, it is not, I wanted to say that thinner than 3mm (.12") is not too thin. 2 to bellow 3mm is great for slicing jobs and 3 to 4mm range is normal all purpose.
And yes, the market is kind of saturated with so many knives, which kind of dilute them for my taste. The mass manufactured knives are cut to shape from a sheet of material, making the shape that you want to cut is not as hard as other manufacturing processes. I don't buy things unless I really want it for a purpose, for something interesting within my price range or for support reason.
These are the 3 examples of mine. By order that I got them.
- The middle blue is the QSP Parrot in Chinese D2, bought it for only 25CAD at the time to be used as the generic cheap EDC beater. My doesn't have any quality issue and hold up against moderate use surprisingly well. It is kind of the representation for all of the liner lock chinese made knife for me. Though, I won't recommend the brand.
- The bottom in green is the Kizer Vigor, I got it because it has that compound flap tip/hollow belly grind type that not a Tanto compound, at the transition between medium and small sizes (7.5cm/3" blade), in N690, which is fancy steel, and was on clearance for only 45CAD. It needs all of these reasons for me to buy it.
- The top in black is the Cold Steel Air Lite. I need something light and durable for field exercise. Despite its flimsy looking, it is one of the strongest strength per mass ratio out there with a proven strong Tri-ad lock. Cold Steel has the normal curved belly as well, but I want to try a tanto knife and Cold Steel is well known for that. it is my only tanto, and it has a homogeneous V grind instead of compound grind. AUS10 on this blade, on the same grade as 154CM/440C/N690/VG10, outside of Cold Steel and Japanese kitchen Knife, no one really uses it.
Otherwise, my one true daily carry is SAK Huntsman. Heck, the wood saw on it is kind of unnecessary, but was useful to even valuable a couple of times.
Helping others to choose is kind of a hobby itself. It's good that you found what you want. Please give us the report on your Sencut Fritch when you have time.
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Chronovore
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I'm skeptical of most concerns over knives being lightly built or having thin blades. Just what are people doing with their EDC folders that 0.10" is too thin? Better yet, what are they doing that 0.10" is too thin but 0.125" is okay?
It's sort of like arguments about the sturdiness of lock types. What is someone doing with an EDC folder such that a liner lock will definitely fail but a frame lock or shark lock definitely won't?!?
At the end of the day, a knife is made for cutting. If anything, a thinner blade can be a benefit in passing through material. If a task really requires something more robust, is it even a job for a folding knife in the first place?
I think that makes a lot of sense.
Tasks aside, maybe I'm just biased, but there is something to the feel of a knife. Maybe I've just gotten used to heavier or denser feeling knifes. When I pick up an 8 inch knife that weighs less than three ounces and is primarily made of laminated fabric, it just doesn't feel right. Maybe that's stupid and I need to get over it, but just as the opposite is true (a super heavy tiny knife is equally uncomfortable), my hand just wants a more substantial feeling 8" knife. Again, maybe that's dumb and I just need to get over it. But God knows there are still too many knives to choose from that meet my fussy (arbitrary?) criteria without dipping into the lightweights lol.
I tend to feel the same way but the Spyderco FRN knives which feel light and almost flimsy have changed my mind. I do like a nice, heavy overbuilt folder like a Cold Steel AD-10 however. That will probably never change
Chronovore
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This is a real thing and it isn't just knives. There can be a perception of cheapness or weakness in a very light object, even if it is the strongest or most expensive version of that object. I still remember an elderly relative picking up a titanium watch for the first time and immediately writing it off as "junk". Over the years, I've run across cases of manufacturers making something heavier on purpose in order to trade on that perception.
Yeah, I don't know if it's just the "cheap" bias or a genuine preference. I also don't want a heavy brass knife etc. I'm just looking for (what I consider) balanced. One of the heavy YouTube reviewers ("metal" somebody) mentioned in a video something about the "perfect ratio" being roughly 1oz per 1" of blade length. I'm not that formulaic about it, but it made me realize there is such a thing as balance, and in retrospect, looking that the knives that felt better in my hand, they just so happened to have something in the ballpark of that ratio. Not that I would toss a knife that didn't meet some weird criteria like that, but balance is a thing we all look for, in subjective ways.
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Exactly why I get the Air Lite, it is in between by being on the 2 extremes. I have the Buck 110 LT, which has FRN handle, but the thickness of the classic Buck 110, light yet feel solid.
Maybe because I started with knives with an European peasant/traditional folding knife, wooden handle without liner, hence I feel nothing wrong about light weight knives. Mine is the French Opinel, a honest work knife, use collar lock, which is classed as rather weak, yet rarely hear of the handle breaking or anything. Similar reputation and construction are known with Portugal MAM, S.Africa Okapi, Italian Old Bear, then there are very light weight steel handle like German Mercator and Japanese Higo. Non of these knives will make the "perfect ratio" (which doesn't even sound for metric users like myself) despite they are being made since the late 19th early 20th century, they are not dated and are still the knives to go for many non knife nut people. Also, some knives have thick blade and thin handle (like so cleaver style blade), while other have thin blade and heavy handle (brass handle is an example), all fit the "ratio", but they are definitely not balanced, these are not uncommon cases.
The Youtuber you think about is Metal Complex. Some of people on Youtube are sponsored, get knives sent to them for "review", but actually marketing, and not everyone are honest in their review to keep on the sponsors. Many of them made the criteria for their perfect thing, use it as standard then judging everything around it, their perfect criteria usually fall in the middle of what they get to review, to get that pleased sense to as many knives as possible while being appeared as honest. Welcome to the rabbit hole of the hobby. I'm not dismissing your preference, if that formula work for you, that's good as it narrows down on what you want.
I'm naïve as the next guy about all kinds of stuff, but the bias displayed in a lot of those youtube reviews is glaring. The incentive to sell knives so that they get sent more so that their channel, in turn, generates more revenue seems obvious. A few of those guys are just laughable. I can't keep all the names straight, but a couple of them seem more objective and, sometimes, outright critical. I don't know if they're just more savvy or genuinely candid, but I do appreciate comparing several more objective reviews and looking for themes that might be closer to "True." Just takes a lot of time because the top reviewers all seem goofy.
SomebodySomewhere
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SomebodySomewhere
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Little update for those who are curious. I actually came across a few of these in the wild and ordered a couple as well. Turns out a neighbor has the Kizer Cozy and apparently the Elementum is pretty much everywhere. Turns out there’s an outdoor show going on near me right now with a bunch of knives. How convenient! Thoughts so far…
Cozy is solid. Best action of any of the knives I’ve tried. The liners sit proud to the micarta which somehow irritated me, and the handle felt a little clunky to my hand. Blade’s probably bigger than I’m looking for, and this one’s at the higher end of the budget. Very cool knife, but it’s a pass.
Elementum had the weakest action (or detent, I guess, as people here say). Deployment failed over and over. Sweet little knife, but there’s a lot of competition at the $50 mark.
Petrified Fish 818: this is a great knife. Inexpensive. Great action, great in the hand. Again, probably a bigger blade than I’m realizing I probably want. Also, the lock bar is not jimped and is almost recessed. Maybe could get used to it, but compared to other knives, pretty inaccessible. Still, cheapest of the bunch and is awesome.
PF Flavorist. I was excited about this one because the reviews suggest it opens with a thumb or index-over-the-top, but try as I might, it just takes tremendous force to get it to budge with the index. Thumb worked pretty good. No thumb studs. On the fence. This one’s almost $20 more than the 818. One thing i realized I really like about this front flipper though is that there’s no flipper tab to hit your finger when you’re closing the knife. Tougher to deploy but definitely smoother to close vs a back flipper. (Do people say back flipper??). Great size, great action, great blade shape. Like a cheaper version of the new Sokoke.
Sencut Neches: felt like a steak knife to me. Long pointy blade. Lock bar was another tricky one, but not as bad as the 818. 10Cr steel. Wanted to love it. And really not a thing wrong with it or it’s value. Just wasn’t a match.
Sencut Fritch: This one’s the front runner. Great blade shape, perfect size, beautiful handle, pops open and closed with ease. Fits the hand. Under $50.
I’m told there’s a Sokoke and maybe a Pintail at this outdoor show too so maybe will have to go back if there’s time. Really fun learning about all the designs and my preferences. Lots of help here. It’s been fun, thanks!
Cozy is solid. Best action of any of the knives I’ve tried. The liners sit proud to the micarta which somehow irritated me, and the handle felt a little clunky to my hand. Blade’s probably bigger than I’m looking for, and this one’s at the higher end of the budget. Very cool knife, but it’s a pass.
Elementum had the weakest action (or detent, I guess, as people here say). Deployment failed over and over. Sweet little knife, but there’s a lot of competition at the $50 mark.
Petrified Fish 818: this is a great knife. Inexpensive. Great action, great in the hand. Again, probably a bigger blade than I’m realizing I probably want. Also, the lock bar is not jimped and is almost recessed. Maybe could get used to it, but compared to other knives, pretty inaccessible. Still, cheapest of the bunch and is awesome.
PF Flavorist. I was excited about this one because the reviews suggest it opens with a thumb or index-over-the-top, but try as I might, it just takes tremendous force to get it to budge with the index. Thumb worked pretty good. No thumb studs. On the fence. This one’s almost $20 more than the 818. One thing i realized I really like about this front flipper though is that there’s no flipper tab to hit your finger when you’re closing the knife. Tougher to deploy but definitely smoother to close vs a back flipper. (Do people say back flipper??). Great size, great action, great blade shape. Like a cheaper version of the new Sokoke.
Sencut Neches: felt like a steak knife to me. Long pointy blade. Lock bar was another tricky one, but not as bad as the 818. 10Cr steel. Wanted to love it. And really not a thing wrong with it or it’s value. Just wasn’t a match.
Sencut Fritch: This one’s the front runner. Great blade shape, perfect size, beautiful handle, pops open and closed with ease. Fits the hand. Under $50.
I’m told there’s a Sokoke and maybe a Pintail at this outdoor show too so maybe will have to go back if there’s time. Really fun learning about all the designs and my preferences. Lots of help here. It’s been fun, thanks!
Chronovore
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I usually don't like proud liners. It's like a purposeful departure from principles of good ergonomics: isolated narrow ridges in places where force is likely to be applied. Sure, it creates a shadow-boxing effect that can look cool. It almost never feels good. Knives I like with proud liners are the exception and I like them in spite of their proud liners. Examples include the WE Saakshi and the full-sized Sheepsfoot Domin from Kizer.
The Elementum adds insult to injury on this with the jimping on the lock bar. Proud jimping on lock bars usually causes me a hot spot. I've recently experimented with grinding them down but my finishing skills aren't good enough to ever want to do that on an expensive knife. Coincidentally, lock bars with limited access can often be better operated with the pointer finger as opposed to the thumb. Like operating the paddle releases on European pistols, you'll quickly realize "hey, my finger was already there".
The Cozy mated strangely with my hand. I think it might have been okay if the knife was longer but it just felt awkward to me. I had a similar experience with the new Kizer Mad (Damned Designs collaboration).
Too bad about the Neches. I love that little knife. So you did they have the Flavorist at the show or did you actually buy it?
Looks like we may have similar taste in edc knives. Other than the Neches, what are your favorites (budget or mid)?
ESEE Izula or Candiru also.
fishface5
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I hate proud liners. On the black civivi Cogent I posted earlier, I used a belt grinder to make the liners flush with the scales, and removed the hump on the top of the handle - so much more comfortable!
Have you gone to knifecenter's website? You can search their inventory using filters like blade length, steel, opening mechanism, lock type, etc.
Have you gone to knifecenter's website? You can search their inventory using filters like blade length, steel, opening mechanism, lock type, etc.
Chronovore
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There are a bunch of knives with slightly proud but rounded liners that are fine. Among them, the Sencut Snap is a gem. I love the wood scales. (I just gave mine a little TLC.) The action from the box was very good but like the PF818 and the Neches, I did upgrade it to Skiff bearings.
For button locks, the Conspirator and Chevalier from Civivi fall into that category. I'm still 50/50 on button locks but some of that is just me subconsciously reaching my finger for the liner/frame.
The other issue is that I prefer a detent that breaks crisply. The recent wave of button locks is better than the axis/cross-bar/clutch locks I've tried but they don't match liner and frame locks in that respect.If you like flickable thumb studs, the full-sized Sheepsfoot Domin from Kizer is surprisingly good. The liners are quite proud and while that did stop it from being my knife of the year in 2022, it still managed to be my runner up. Between the action and the blade shape, it's awesome.
Getting away from proud liners, the Civivi Voltaic is good for what it is. I expected the extra weight from being a steel frame-lock to be an issue but with the inlays, it really hasn't been. I scale-swapped a pair of them to get both a blackout and naked steel with wood.
For something a little more premium, I like both the Beacon and the Seer from WE. The Beacon is the winner on action but the Seer is the winner on ergonomics. For thumb studs plus a front flipper, the WE Esprit is excellent.
Overall, the Kizer Gemini remains one of my all-time favorite designs. It's a little thicker but fits into the same size category as the Elementum. It's just a fantastic knife in any variation, whether the $75 liner-lock with Micarta and N690 (Mojave Outdoors exclusive) or the $200 titanium frame-lock with wood inlays and S35VN (Kizer website exclusive).