Hinderer vs ZT

blsnelling

blsnelling

Joined
Feb 22, 2006
Messages
155
I'll be the first to admit that I'm intrigued with Hinderer knives. But, every time I consider one, I ask myself "What makes this knife better than a ZT?". I have a ZT 0562 CF. Even at its slightly elevated price in the ZT lineup, it's way less expensive than any Hinderer. And quite frankly, I find it a nicer knife and much better looking. Am I missing something, or is the Hinderer more of a cult following, perhaps something bought as a status symbol?
 
I fully agree and understand that, but that doesn't really answer the question. Both of these are high quality knives. Why is one so much more expensive than the other? I believe it's simply a case of the more limited availability of the Hinderer, and that we always want what we can't have, or put a higher value on what is harder to acquire. At this point, I see no indications that it has anything to do with quality or build.
 
Fanglekai said:
Most everyone could get by easily with a SAK or Opinel. It's not about need it's about want.
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Word.
ZTs are nice knives, as are Hinderers. I've been lucky enough to own a couple from each company. From a practical standpoint, I didn't find anything special about Hinderers when compared to the ZTs I owned, especially considering the difference of price points. That being said, the Hinderer itch wasn't scratched until I bought one and discovered they weren't for me. It's been my experience when I want a particular thing(knife/kayak/jacket/whatever), buying anything other than that thing never satisfies. As result, I try to buy exactly what I want these days, even if it takes a bit longer to save up for it.
 
flipe8 said:
Word.
ZTs are nice knives, as are Hinderers. I've been lucky enough to own a couple from each company. From a practical standpoint, I didn't find anything special about Hinderers when compared to the ZTs I owned, especially considering the difference of price points. That being said, the Hinderer itch wasn't scratched until I bought one and discovered they weren't for me. It's been my experience when I want a particular thing(knife/kayak/jacket/whatever), buying anything other than that thing never satisfies. As result, I try to buy exactly what I want these days, even if it takes a bit longer to save up for it.
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I have to fully agree with you. I know if I settle I will not be happy and it'll cost me more in the long run because I'll still end up getting what I really wanted in the first place.
 
blsnelling said:
I understand that itch and still want a Hinderer :)
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And that's the thing. This hobby doesn't have us making rational choices:confused:. From my own little set of rules and experiences, I would say my Techno is a better true EDC knife than my Small Sebenza, considering price point, performance and a number of other things I look for. Still, the Sebenza is a knife I keep coming back to because it just does. I can't answer it anymore, so I don't really try to.
 
The answer I'm about to give is purely academic. I have no interest in either a Hinderer XM-18 3.5" or any Hinderer XM-based knife that ZT makes. They're all too big and heavy to suit my needs. But if I were in the market for a Hinderer and I was thinking about paying the kind of price the 0392 commands on the open market, I'd buy a Hinderer instead on the basis of cachet alone. It's one thing to pull a knife out of your pocket that Rick Hinderer designed. It's quite another to pull a knife out of your pocket that Rick Hinderer made. On the other hand, a knife like the 0562CF represents such a good value that I'd choose it over any Hinderer on the market based on bang-for-the-buck. Heck, the 0562CF would be a great knife if Jascha Heifitz designed it. And it's a dead nuts bargain compared to the 0392 or anything in the Hinderer stable that ordinary mortals can buy.

So that's the decision you have to make when you choose an original Hinderer or a ZT Hinderer . . . prestige value or bang-for-the-buck. The choice . . . and the cost . . . are yours.
 
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I've had several Hindered-designed knives from ZT over the past few years. My current EDC is a 0562. I love it. I've only owned one actual Hinderer. An XM-18 3.5" skinner grind. I was really excited to get it and try it out because I always had that "itch" too. However, the first time I picked it up I realized I much preferred my 0562 for several reasons. I much prefer the handle of the 0562, as I couldn't get my hand to fit comfortably on the XM, even using the choil. The flipping action wasn't nearly as nice on the XM and the flipper tab was sharp and painful to use (admittedly, this probably would've gotten better with use but still). Finally, I was astounded by the blade stock thickness on the XM. I like a beefy knife as far as things go, but that thing was just ridiculous. Probably the biggest deal breaker for me though is that I'm left handed, and the XM is right hand only.

So at the end of the day, I decided I'm more than happy sticking with my Hinderer ZTs and I no longer feel the need to buy a real Hinderer again.
 
chrispy513 said:
So at the end of the day, I decided I'm more than happy sticking with my Hinderer ZTs and I no longer feel the need to buy a real Hinderer again.
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I sure hope I get that choice at some point. It's as simple as ZT making a decision to produce a knife based on the Hinderer XM-18 3.0". Until then, because I refuse to pay more than a manufacturer says their knife is worth, there will be no Hinderers or licensed Hinderer-designed knives for me. :(
 
Good reply guys. It's interesting to read other guys responses. I like that we're able to understand the need vs the want and value vs prestige. Both are great knives. If I could more easily get a CF XM-18, I'd be a lot more tempted :)
 
blsnelling said:
Good reply guys. It's interesting to read other guys responses. I like that we're able to understand the need vs the want and value vs prestige. Both are great knives. If I could more easily get a CF XM-18, I'd be a lot more tempted :)
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Add "directly from the manufacturer" and you'd have to get in line behind me. :) I'd even buy a 3.5" and trade it straight across for a 3.0". I don't imagine I'd have too much trouble finding someone who would be willing to make that trade . . . ;)

I base my purchase decisions on a concept you may have heard of. It's called "opportunity cost". If you're not already familiar with it, look it up and you'll understand why I don't buy Hinderers (or 0392s, for that matter) on the secondary market.
 
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These principles are the exact reason I don't buy a hinderer. However, my 0392 will likely be with me a long time as I paid the $375 when they released. I would rather have a zt because of the warranty that is trusted and I don't have to worry about what hinderer is doing and his potentially long turn around time because he is a small business.
 
Cryogen said:
These principles are the exact reason I don't buy a hinderer. However, my 0392 will likely be with me a long time as I paid the $375 when they released. I would rather have a zt because of the warranty that is trusted and I don't have to worry about what hinderer is doing and his potentially long turn around time because he is a small business.
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As I said before, I was never in the market for an 0392. But had I been, its $375 price would have been problematic for me. You do realize that's the same price Rick charges customers that are permitted to buy directly from him for an XM-18, right?
 
I've had both Hinderers and ZT/RHK collabs and there IS a difference to me. The 392 blurred the lines a bit more by using more of Hinderers parts, but comparing a 0560 to an XM18 was night and day for me.

First off, I'm not a huge fan of bearings- they work- but I worry about extended functionality.
Second, the ergos on an XM just seemed to fit my hand better.
Third, I can disassemble the XM and even customize it without voiding any warranty.

Again, the 392 covers a lot of these bases too, but it felt... thinner? I was shocked at how small it felt but maybe someone with an Eklipse could chime in on those (never saw an Eklipse in person)

As far as the pricing, the 392 offering isn't far off from RHK MSRP and figure the extra cost is for the exclusivity of his parts and of course a little marketing. The offerings with a larger disparity from RHK in terms of price, as I've said- felt different to me.

Edit: just saw bld said the same on the pricing vs RHK
 
drrickso said:
I've had both Hinderers and ZT/RHK collabs and there IS a difference to me. The 392 blurred the lines a bit more by using more of Hinderers parts, but comparing a 0560 to an XM18 was night and day for me.

First off, I'm not a huge fan of bearings- they work- but I worry about extended functionality.
Second, the ergos on an XM just seemed to fit my hand better.
Third, I can disassemble the XM and even customize it without voiding any warranty.

Again, the 392 covers a lot of these bases too, but it felt... thinner? I was shocked at how small it felt but maybe someone with an Eklipse could chime in on those (never saw an Eklipse in person)

As far as the pricing, the 392 offering isn't far off from RHK MSRP and figure the extra cost is for the exclusivity of his parts and of course a little marketing. The offerings with a larger disparity from RHK in terms of price, as I've said- felt different to me.

Edit: just saw bld said the same on the pricing vs RHK
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Yep. Buying the XM-18 at MSRP instead of an 0392 would have been a no brainer for me. Unfortunately, I don't qualify to buy direct. But paying XM-18 prices for an 0392 on the secondary market? There's just no way I could do that.
 
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bld522 said:
As I said before, I was never in the market for an 0392. But had I been, its $375 price would have been problematic for me. You do realize that's the same price Rick charges customers that are permitted to buy directly from him for an XM-18, right?
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The same price could get you a Hinderer with a G10 scale and steel hardware. You would be looking at an extra $200 at least for a titanium scale (if you could find one) and over $100 more for a full set of anodized titanium hardware ( again, when available). Plus the bearings make the 0392 flip so much better than any xm I've ever had. Those features make it a steal at $375 in my opinion.
 
smuiradise said:
The same price could get you a Hinderer with a G10 scale and steel hardware. You would be looking at an extra $200 at least for a titanium scale (if you could find one) and over $100 more for a full set of anodized titanium hardware ( again, when available). Plus the bearings make the 0392 flip so much better than any xm I've ever had. Those features make it a steal at $375 in my opinion.
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actually that's a good point... I forgot about the Ti scales coming stock on the 392
 
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