Hinderer vs ZT

bld522 · Feb 27, 2015

drrickso said:
actually that's a good point... I forgot about the Ti scales coming stock on the 392

True that. But no matter how you slice it and dice it, it's still a ZT . . . not a Hinderer. And for the same price, I'll take the latter over the former every day of the week . . . Titanium scales notwithstanding.

Kyle_4 · Feb 27, 2015

smuiradise said:
The same price could get you a Hinderer with a G10 scale and steel hardware. You would be looking at an extra $200 at least for a titanium scale (if you could find one) and over $100 more for a full set of anodized titanium hardware ( again, when available). Plus the bearings make the 0392 flip so much better than any xm I've ever had. Those features make it a steal at $375 in my opinion.

X2 great post. You cannot compare a xm-18 direct from Hinderer and a zt 0392 because they are nowhere in the same league. That being said, I own a few Hinderers and a few ZTs and love them both for their own reasons.

atony · Feb 27, 2015

Whatever the price point the 0392 is the better knife of the design, IMO.

Kyle_4 · Feb 27, 2015

bld522 said:
True that. But no matter how you slice it and dice it, it's still a ZT . . . not a Hinderer. And for the same price, I'll take the latter over the former every day of the week . . . Titanium scales notwithstanding.

So the knife that has...
-better blade steel
-full titanium handles
-full titanium hardware
-runs on bearing so way smoother
-stronger more reliable detent for flipping
-lockbar insert for less wear

All for about $200 less than a Hinderer (Rick does not sell eklipses direct) and you would rather buy a Hinderer for the name? Don't get me wrong I have original Hinderers but the 0392 was a hit outta the park.

Cryogen · Feb 27, 2015

atony said:
Whatever the price point the 0392 is the better knife of the design, IMO.

I agree. Even if I could buy direct from hinderer. I would choose the 0392 over the xm-18. IMO it looks better and seems better all around for what you pay.

JuJu- · Feb 27, 2015

drrickso said:
I've had both Hinderers and ZT/RHK collabs and there IS a difference to me. The 392 blurred the lines a bit more by using more of Hinderers parts, but comparing a 0560 to an XM18 was night and day for me.

First off, I'm not a huge fan of bearings- they work- but I worry about extended functionality.
Second, the ergos on an XM just seemed to fit my hand better.
Third, I can disassemble the XM and even customize it without voiding any warranty.

Again, the 392 covers a lot of these bases too, but it felt... thinner? I was shocked at how small it felt but maybe someone with an Eklipse could chime in on those (never saw an Eklipse in person)

As far as the pricing, the 392 offering isn't far off from RHK MSRP and figure the extra cost is for the exclusivity of his parts and of course a little marketing. The offerings with a larger disparity from RHK in terms of price, as I've said- felt different to me.

Edit: just saw bld said the same on the pricing vs RHK

A couple points,

I believe washers vs bearings isn't really anything to worry about. You can replace the washers just as easily as you can replace a PB washer, they just swap right out.

Also, you won't void the warranty if you disassemble a ZT or Kershaw.

bld522 · Feb 27, 2015

Kyle_4 said:
So the knife that has...
-better blade steel
-full titanium handles
-full titanium hardware
-runs on bearing so way smoother
-stronger more reliable detent for flipping
-lockbar insert for less wear

All for about $200 less than a Hinderer (Rick does not sell eklipses direct) and you would rather buy a Hinderer for the name? Don't get me wrong I have original Hinderers but the 0392 was a hit outta the park.

Absolutely. As I said before, it's one thing to pull a production knife out of your pocket that's designed by Rick Hinderer. It's quite another to pull one out of your pocket that was made by him. At the end of the day, you can call the ZT anything you want to. You just can't call it a Hinderer.

atony · Feb 27, 2015

bld522 said:
Absolutely. As I said before, it's one thing to pull a production knife out of your pocket that's designed by Rick Hinderer. It's quite another to pull one out of your pocket that was made by him.

After the gleam of the first one it's all the same.

bld522 · Feb 27, 2015

atony said:
After the gleam of the first one it's all the same.

I hear you. But for those of us who don't yet own the first one, buying an 0392 isn't going to get the job done.

GhostAlpha0 · Feb 27, 2015

This is an interesting thread because I've been thinking about this lately. I was asking myself the question "Does ZT make a better Hinderer than Rick Hinderer?". I have almost all of the ZT Hinderers -- the 0560/0561 variations, 0562 variations, 0566 variations, and the 0392. I only have 4 XM-18s.

Of course the XM-18s are more expensive and harder to get so these are definitely factors. After some thought I think the answer is no -- ZT doesn't make a better Hinderer but the Hinderers they do make are equally appealing to me for different reasons. The 0560s and 0562s are amazingly smooth flippers, I like the spring assist on the 0562s, the 0392 is just unique and badass, and my XM-18s different blade steels and really feel indestructible.

bld522 · Feb 27, 2015

akrapacs said:
This is an interesting thread because I've been thinking about this lately. I was asking myself the question "Does ZT make a better Hinderer than Rick Hinderer?". I have almost all of the ZT Hinderers -- the 0560/0561 variations, 0562 variations, 0566 variations, and the 0392. I only have 4 XM-18s.

Of course the XM-18s are more expensive and harder to get so these are definitely factors. After some thought I think the answer is no -- ZT doesn't make a better Hinderer but the Hinderers they do make are equally appealing to me for different reasons. The 0560s and 0562s are amazingly smooth flippers, I like the spring assist on the 0562s, the 0392 is just unique and badass, and my XM-18s different blade steels and really feel indestructible.

Yep. And when all is said and done, you get to say something people who only own ZTs can't say. You own a real Hinderer! What does that mean? It means what it means to you.

But my hunch is, if you had to start selling the knives in your signature, your XM-18 wouldn't be the first one.

atony · Feb 27, 2015

bld522 said:
I hear you. But for those of us who don't yet own the first one, buying an 0392 isn't going to get the job done.

I agree the allure of a Hinderer knife is strong, he makes and designs great knives. I have had more than my fair share and love them. There is no collaboration stronger than ZT and Hinderer IMO, that's what makes the 0392 special is because of Ricks input and design. They both made a better version of the Eclipse. Yes it still is a ZT at the end of the day and I am alright with that.

bld522 · Feb 27, 2015

atony said:
Yes it still is a ZT at the end of the day and I am alright with that.

In the final analysis, that's all that really matters . . . right? But I have to say it's been fun playing devil's advocate. I bet I got more than a couple of people thinking about their purchase decisions, if you know what I mean.

So come on, ZT. Give my my 3.0" 0563 and let's complete the circle.

smuiradise · Feb 27, 2015

bld522 said:
I hear you. But for those of us who don't yet own the first one, buying an 0392 isn't going to get the job done.

No disagreement from me. A zt 0550 was my first hinderer design and still one of my favorite knives. But I HAD to have an XM-18. And admittedly it felt great in the hand. But what I didn't like was the choil. Just my preference but what it boils down to is I love Hinderer knives and ZT makes it more affordable and easier to obtain.

nwmetalbug · Feb 27, 2015

If you took off the names and put a Eklipse and a 0392 against each other just on materials and build quality vs price which one would you choose? That being said I still want an Eklipse When RH comes out with a clip point.

atony · Feb 27, 2015

bld522 said:
In the final analysis, that's all that really matters . . . right? But I have to say it's been fun playing devil's advocate. I bet I got more than a couple of people thinking about their purchase decisions, if you know what I mean.

I don't think there should be as much focus on ZT vs Hinderer, without either the 0392 would not be as great a knife as it is.

And I do feel the need for a XM now........THANKS!

bld522 · Feb 27, 2015

atony said:
And I do feel the need for a XM now........THANKS!

It's a pleasure to be of service.

asdf12345 · Feb 27, 2015

bld522 said:
Absolutely. As I said before, it's one thing to pull a production knife out of your pocket that's designed by Rick Hinderer. It's quite another to pull one out of your pocket that was made by him. At the end of the day, you can call the ZT anything you want to. You just can't call it a Hinderer.

Aren't Hinderers production knives? Although it is Hinderer's shop, Hinderer himself doesn't do the hand work on each knife, they are CNC cut in batches and machine ground by employees, just like ZTs are.

That considered I'd probably opt for ZT too since they are more cost-effective and feature improvements in several regards over Hinderer production knives.

Now if we're talking actual Rick Hinderer customs with handground blades, that's a different story, and the price difference there is substantial. You'll pay anywhere from several hundred to a few thousand dollars more than a ZT for one of his custom knives.

Kyle_4 · Feb 27, 2015

bld522 said:
Absolutely. As I said before, it's one thing to pull a production knife out of your pocket that's designed by Rick Hinderer. It's quite another to pull one out of your pocket that was made by him. At the end of the day, you can call the ZT anything you want to. You just can't call it a Hinderer.

The knife you are talking about for $385 is one of his "production" models, an XM-18 is not hand ground/assembled by him. If you want one of those that would be one of his customs and then you are looking easily $1500 +

akrapacs said:
The 0560s and 0562s are amazingly smooth flippers, I like the spring assist on the 0562s, the 0392 is just unique and badass, and my XM-18s different blade steels and really feel indestructible.

The 562 just has a strong detent and runs on bearings. You know they have got it right when people think it is spring assisted :thumbup:

bld522 · Feb 27, 2015

Kyle_4 said:
The knife you are talking about for $385 is one of his "production" models, an XM-18 is not hand ground/assembled by him. If you want one of those that would be one of his customs and then you are looking easily $1500 +

True. But an XM-18 comes out of Rick's shop, it's covered by Rick's warranty, and it bears Rick's trademark . . . things no ZT can claim to do. This isn't rocket science. If you don't own a Hinderer and you want to own a Hinderer, you need to buy a Hinderer.