Hinderer vs ZT

There's really no comparison between a Hinderer and a ZT with a Hinderer design. Anyone who thinks that ZT's bearing pivots are smoother than a regular Hinderer with washers clearly has never owned (or broken in) an XM.

There's no comparison in level of refinement, long term durability, and that feeling of complete confidence in your folder. Just the humble opinion of someone who owns a few of each.

XM prices have been coming down quite a bit lately. You can find the 3" models brand new from dealers for as low as $479, which is a little less than $100 above the price direct from Rick. Compared to a few years ago, that price is outstanding. I certainly wouldn't say a 3" Hinderer is on par with CRK Small Sebenza fit/finish/refinement/tolerances, but if you're into a Hinderer design, that's really not a horrendous price at all.
 
Right now it appears the ZT line is as good as Hinderer. Only because of the latest feeding frenzy with the 392. The true test is time,will the same ZT's that are perceived as equal quality hold their value in 5 years? Will they be sought after like some of the Hinderers?
I love my ZT's, but I don't have the same level of confidence with the ZT as I do with my Hinderer. Hinderer's are built like they are for a reason, and that's what gives me a warm fuzzy feeling owning a Hinderer.
 
NYOutdoors said:
There's really no comparison between a Hinderer and a ZT with a Hinderer design. Anyone who thinks that ZT's bearing pivots are smoother than a regular Hinderer with washers clearly has never owned (or broken in) an XM.
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I've owned 3 XM-18's, all used, and not one of them could hold a candle to the action of the 0392 or even the 0550 on PB washers. Great knives, just not great flippers...of course I think that had more to do with the detent than the washers vs bearings argument.
 
smuiradise said:
I've owned 3 XM-18's, all used, and not one of them could hold a candle to the action of the 0392 or even the 0550 on PB washers. Great knives, just not great flippers...of course I think that had more to do with the detent than the washers vs bearings argument.
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That's true. And it's true by design on both sides. Keep in mind that XM-18s are purpose-built knives. And their purpose isn't to serve the general population.
 
Some people pay $185 just for a clip to put on their knife. Different people buy knives for different reasons. Some like to 'pimp' their knives, their knives basically become jewelry and are probably hardly every used. Others buy knives for specific purposes and some people are old school collectors, tracking down variants and first runs stuff like that.

Asking 'is it worth it' will usually generate a different response from every person that answers.
 
Norcaldude said:
Some people pay $185 just for a clip to put on their knife. Different people buy knives for different reasons. Some like to 'pimp' their knives, their knives basically become jewelry and are probably hardly every used. Others buy knives for specific purposes and some people are old school collectors, tracking down variants and first runs stuff like that.

Asking 'is it worth it' will usually generate a different response from every person that answers.
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True. What shouldn't generate a different response from every person that answers is whether any knife other than a Hinderer can call itself a Hinderer. And that's what I'm talking about here.
 
bld522 said:
That's true. And it's true by design on both sides. Keep in mind that XM-18s are purpose-built knives. And their purpose isn't to serve the general population.
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I've heard the newer skinner and Bowie designs have stronger detente...which if true I'm going to be in the market for one very soon.
 
smuiradise said:
I've owned 3 XM-18's, all used, and not one of them could hold a candle to the action of the 0392 or even the 0550 on PB washers. Great knives, just not great flippers...of course I think that had more to do with the detent than the washers vs bearings argument.
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I will confess that a ZT on bearings flips faster, but I don't like the gritty and unrefined feel that I get from a bearing pivot when it is flipped (not just on ZT bearings, any knife with bearings). I much prefer a buttery smooth but entirely controlled flip, which still delivers excellent speed of deployment. Flipping a broken in Hinderer and flipping a ZT on bearings...it's really no comparison for me, the Hinderer feels substantially better. I wish ZT would make more of their current flippers with PB washers - I'd be much more interested in their newer offerings were that the case.
 
NYOutdoors said:
I will confess that a ZT on bearings flips faster, but I don't like the gritty and unrefined feel that I get from a bearing pivot when it is flipped (not just on ZT bearings, any knife with bearings).
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That's a bold statement to make unless you've flipped every bearing knife on the planet. I can tell you for a fact that I've got a bearing knife that's smoother, silkier and quieter than any knife I own that uses washers.
 
smuiradise said:
I've heard the newer skinner and Bowie designs have stronger detente...which if true I'm going to be in the market for one very soon.
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I just got my Bowie this week and the detente is just unbelievably strong compared to my other XM-18.
 
bld522 said:
That's a bold statement to make unless you've flipped every bearing knife on the planet. I can tell you for a fact that I've got a bearing knife that's smoother, silkier and quieter than any knife I own that uses washers.
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OK, any knife that I've flipped on bearings, which is a lot, but certainly not every one on the planet. This is a matter of opinion, of course, based on personal experience.
 
I have had 6 or 7 Hinderers (with another on the way) and not a single one of them can compare to the flipping action of recent ZT limited releases in terms of smoothness, detents, and action.

I dont like Hinderers because of how well they flip though. Hinderers flat out look and work amazingly well. ZT makes the best production flippers around I think it would be very hard to argue otherwise. All I know is that I hope Hinderer and ZT continue to put out sick collaborations.
 
NYOutdoors said:
OK, any knife that I've flipped on bearings, which is a lot, but certainly not every one on the planet. This is a matter of opinion, of course, based on personal experience.
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Flip my Rod Olson Quick Flick and you will form a different opinion, I promise. :)
 
Since we're talking about RHK vs ZT collaboration, has anyone wondered why most people don't complain about the flipper on RHK, but only their lack of speed? With ZT collaborations, I've noticed that people complain about the flipper itself as being sharp? I hate to admit to myself, but RHK's flipper design was not meant for a strong detente and bearing washers.
 
Jasonsdman said:
RHK's flipper design was not meant for a strong detente and bearing washers.
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You're right. It wasn't. Redesigning Rick's flippers to have strong detentes and bearing washers is probably ZT's biggest contribution to his collabs.

I hope nobody gets this wrong. I'm certainly not saying that I don't like ZT knives based on Rick's designs. Nothing could be further from the truth. I just wish ZT would make one that suited me. If they did, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Meanwhile I've got my 0770CF to keep me warm. :)
 
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Prolly not. But grab yourself a Tighe custom that uses his sealed thrust bearing system (STBS) and you'll see what I'm talking about.
 
bld522 said:
The answer I'm about to give is purely academic. I have no interest in either a Hinderer XM-18 3.5" or any Hinderer XM-based knife that ZT makes. They're all too big and heavy to suit my needs. But if I were in the market for a Hinderer and I was thinking about paying the kind of price the 0392 commands on the open market, I'd buy a Hinderer instead on the basis of cachet alone. It's one thing to pull a knife out of your pocket that Rick Hinderer designed. It's quite another to pull a knife out of your pocket that Rick Hinderer made. On the other hand, a knife like the 0562CF represents such a good value that I'd choose it over any Hinderer on the market based on bang-for-the-buck. Heck, the 0562CF would be a great knife if Jascha Heifitz designed it. And it's a dead nuts bargain compared to the 0392 or anything in the Hinderer stable that ordinary mortals can buy.

So that's the decision you have to make when you choose an original Hinderer or a ZT Hinderer . . . prestige value or bang-for-the-buck. The choice . . . and the cost . . . are yours.
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Haha, you just made my day.
 
Regarding the original question: yeah, it seems that the appeal of a true Hinderer over a ZT is prestige and exclusivity. It would seem that the 0562 should at least equal an XM-18 where it counts (ergos, blade) and the 0562cf should be the best performer associated with the Hinderer name.

Personally, I don't care about prestige. I don't care who designed a knife. I would call Hinderer a favorite designer of mine, because I like a lot of what I've seen from him. Having said that, I have no desire to own a 0560/0561, for example. Having his name on it doesn't make thirty feet of unnecessary handle desirable.

I don't care about custom bling, either. Special finishes on standoffs and screws? Sure, it's cute. It's not + $350 cute.

What gets me is the combination of performance based design, quality materials, and aesthetic appeal that doesn't compromise practicality. An XM-18 is very attractive. The materials are great. It is clearly built to be used. I'd still rather get a custom scale for my 0562 than buy an XM-18.
 
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