Hinderer Wharncliffe Came Open in Pocket

singularity35 said:
So it'a the pocket that's safe. Not the knife. ;)
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Conjecture!!! ;):D

Even with a weak detent, if carried it in the right front pocket there wouldn't be anywhere for the blade to go because it would rest at the seam.

Now that doesn't always hold 100% true.

I had an Emerson which the blade could be shaken out. I wore it a couple of times in the right front pocket of athletic shorts (very thin and light material) when I went running and it would open up a little bit because of it swinging in my pocket. A little annoying and a bit unsafe. To combat this I did two different things. When carrying the Emerson while running I would put it in my waistband right on my right side. That way it didn't swing and wouldn't open. Or I would carry a knife with a stronger detent that wouldn't open. Even with those knives I found it more comfortable in the waistband so that's where they go now when I run.
Also never had a problem when moving or running with pants that are a sturdier material. Athletic shorts have a lot of give.
 
benchwarmer380 said:
Which pocket? Also was it tip up or tip down?
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benchwarmer380 said:
Conjecture!!! ;):D

Even with a weak detent, if carried it in the right front pocket there wouldn't be anywhere for the blade to go because it would rest at the seam.

Now that doesn't always hold 100% true.

I had an Emerson which the blade could be shaken out. I wore it a couple of times in the right front pocket of athletic shorts (very thin and light material) when I went running and it would open up a little bit because of it swinging in my pocket. A little annoying and a bit unsafe. To combat this I did two different things. When carrying the Emerson while running I would put it in my waistband right on my right side. That way it didn't swing and wouldn't open. Or I would carry a knife with a stronger detent that wouldn't open. Even with those knives I found it more comfortable in the waistband so that's where they go now when I run.
Also never had a problem when moving or running with pants that are a sturdier material. Athletic shorts have a lot of give.
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Not conjecture at all. What really is happening is you are jamming the blade with fabric. That means that if you rely on the fabric to jam a blade closed, you can do it with any clip position, be it tip up, tip down, or tip sideways. It's not the carry position that is inherently safe.

OTOH, what you're saying is a fallacy. Post hoc, ergo propter hoc.
 
brancron said:
If that happened to me with my Hinderer I think I'd be dead: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fIbnvAsD-k
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Very nice! That might be the coolest Hinderer I've seen; the material, the hardware, the wharncliffe, and of course, the edge... that thing could split the atom. Just when I thought I was over Hinderers...

I wasn't quite as happy with my 3.5 slicer. It was really nicely made, but the detent was just as weak as others have mentioned, and either the S35VN blade was ground crooked, or it warped slightly, making it off-centre. I was always trying to counter this slight crookedness, with some success, but I had to keep the pivot pretty tight. It solved the detent problem, too... sort of. It never came open in my pocket, but it was by far the least flippiest flipper that's ever been flipped. I had to use a super-precise mix of push-button and light-switch, which would yield a lazy but successful opening that was pretty reliable. That all might sound really negative, but there were a lot of positive qualities as well, obviously.

I've found tip-up, right-pocket, tight to the seam carry works well, but I don't know if it's any safer than the tip-down carry some prefer. Even with a tight clip there's always a bit of movement.
 
What needs to be done on Hinderers w/ weak detent issues is what Modifiedz points out - drilling the detent hole to enlarge it so the detent ball sits deeper inside it. If you compare the older gens vs the newer ones, I believe the newer ones sit deeper. I recently did what Modifiedz recommended to my 3" Hinderer xm-18 and it made a TON of difference - perfect resistance for a flipper, it loads perfect now. But to be clear, if you like to open your hinderer w/ the thumb stud then you need to keep the detent weaker because if you do this mod then it is perfect for flippers, but you won't be able to use the thumb stud anymore because it is so strong.

[video=youtube;S5H96riLLS4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5H96riLLS4[/video]
 
ben317 said:
... I notice that I can actually shake the blade out just by shaking the knife. Am I wrong in thinking that this is a safety concern?
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You are not wrong. It is defective knife. The detent ball is to hold the knife in. It should not open by shaking on any liner or frame lock. It should be this way from the maker, you should not have to modify it at all. Don't listen to fanboys who tell you it is OK, believe your gut. If you tighten the pivot to "fix" it, you are not really fixing anything, just using the pivot to hold the knife closed...like they did before Walker invented the ball detent.

Send the knife back before you do anything to invalidate a refund or repair. If Hinderer or the dealer tell you it is normal, get a refund.
 
brownshoe said:
You are not wrong. It is defective knife. The detent ball is to hold the knife in. It should not open by shaking on any liner or frame lock. It should be this way from the maker, you should not have to modify it at all. Don't listen to fanboys who tell you it is OK, believe your gut. If you tighten the pivot to "fix" it, you are not really fixing anything, just using the pivot to hold the knife closed...like they did before Walker invented the ball detent.

Send the knife back before you do anything to invalidate a refund or repair. If Hinderer or the dealer tell you it is normal, get a refund.
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I am not a hinderer fanboy. I dont own any, never have and probably wont unless its a collab. While i agree that i wouldnt want a knife like that there are some who like them that way. If rick sets his knives up that way they are not defective. He simply doesnt build his knives to our liking.
 
I've had two XM-18's. The 3.5" spanto had a detent that wasn't... Got rid of both...quickly.
 
singularity35 said:
OTOH, what you're saying is a fallacy. Post hoc, ergo propter hoc.
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I don't believe it's a fallacy, just my experience and opinions with tip up knives. YMMV

Based on what a lot of other posters has said about Hinderers I'm sure the weak detent is to blame. It's my opinion that if it was carried where it was designed to be it would be less likely to happen.


To be fair, the OP only said "Left pocket, tip up" so there's conjecture on my part by assuming that its left front pocket as opposed to back.

Yes, I did have to Google the Latin. ;)
 
benchwarmer380 said:
I don't believe it's a fallacy, just my experience and opinions with tip up knives. YMMV

Based on what a lot of other posters has said about Hinderers I'm sure the weak detent is to blame. It's my opinion that if it was carried where it was designed to be it would be less likely to happen.


To be fair, the OP only said "Left pocket, tip up" so there's conjecture on my part by assuming that its left front pocket as opposed to back.

Yes, I did have to Google the Latin. ;)
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That just confirms that it's not the position but rather the fabric that makes it safe. The knife by itself is unsafe without an external agency to keep it closed.
 
PURPLEDC said:
I am not a hinderer fanboy. I dont own any, never have and probably wont unless its a collab. While i agree that i wouldnt want a knife like that there are some who like them that way. If rick sets his knives up that way they are not defective. He simply doesnt build his knives to our liking.
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It is not a matter of "taste" but design function. There's a lot of makers, including the designer of the modern liner lock, who believe a ball detent should hold the knife closed until the owner want it open. A knife with a liner lock that opens w/o intent is a sufficient & legitimate reason for return.
 
Lol at how people will make a design flaw that leads to consistently poor quality about the position of clipped carry and lack of general user understanding. There are other knives out there that are "supposed" to have blades that rattle in the handle and it's "not a big deal". The reason these issues from these brands continue is that all the koolaid drinkers are easily convinced to accept poor quality and shrug it off because that's the BA manly thing to do or something.
 
brownshoe said:
It is not a matter of "taste" but design function. There's a lot of makers, including the designer of the modern liner lock, who believe a ball detent should hold the knife closed until the owner want it open. A knife with a liner lock that opens w/o intent is a sufficient & legitimate reason for return.
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It is a matter of taste as all makers do things a little differently. Even if there is an overall consensus of what should be if you intentionally do not then is that way on purpose. ZT likes super hard detents. But that doesnt make a hinderer or CRK defective because their detents arent as heavy. And despite what "a lot of makers" do those makers are not Rick Hinderer. Im sorry many but too many people take the way they like something done and hold that up as a the standard in which all others should be measured. That is fine, you like what you like and it is the popular opinion. But others can do it a different way on purpose. Even if every single maker besides rick came on the forum and stated that a detent should be strong enough to not be able to shake the blade from the handle it would only apply to them. If a maker says "yeah I know what the norm is but I make mine different" then there is no argument. There is not a case for an item being "defective" if the item works in accordance with the makers intentions.
 
PURPLEDC said:
It is a matter of taste as all makers do things a little differently. Even if there is an overall consensus of what should be if you intentionally do not then is that way on purpose. ZT likes super hard detents. But that doesnt make a hinderer or CRK defective because their detents arent as heavy. And despite what "a lot of makers" do those makers are not Rick Hinderer. Im sorry many but too many people take the way they like something done and hold that up as a the standard in which all others should be measured. That is fine, you like what you like and it is the popular opinion. But others can do it a different way on purpose. Even if every single maker besides rick came on the forum and stated that a detent should be strong enough to not be able to shake the blade from the handle it would only apply to them. If a maker says "yeah I know what the norm is but I make mine different" then there is no argument. There is not a case for an item being "defective" if the item works in accordance with the makers intentions.
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What if it's not design but only justification? :p
 
PURPLEDC said:
It is a matter of taste as all makers do things a little differently. Even if there is an overall consensus of what should be if you intentionally do not then is that way on purpose. ZT likes super hard detents. But that doesnt make a hinderer or CRK defective because their detents arent as heavy. And despite what "a lot of makers" do those makers are not Rick Hinderer. Im sorry many but too many people take the way they like something done and hold that up as a the standard in which all others should be measured. That is fine, you like what you like and it is the popular opinion. But others can do it a different way on purpose. Even if every single maker besides rick came on the forum and stated that a detent should be strong enough to not be able to shake the blade from the handle it would only apply to them. If a maker says "yeah I know what the norm is but I make mine different" then there is no argument. There is not a case for an item being "defective" if the item works in accordance with the makers intentions.
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Please, a blade falling freely from a pocket knife with little more than a shake is a clear defect. A flipper that can't be flipped with ease due to lack of resistance is flawed. Doesn't matter what anyone says. People only defend defect like this in the knife hobby. Other consumers aren't as stupid as we are as a whole. It's pretty embarrassing.
 
The newer ones have strong detents, they started drilling the detent hole larger.
 
Yes, I do consider a blade that can be easily shaken free to be a safety issue in a tip up folder. I got a Hinderer like this and sent it back.

I have other Hinderers with perfectly adequate détente. That now seems to be the case more often than not, but it is annoying when you get one which is weak to the point of being dangerous and they refuse to adjust it. I like the Hinderers I have, but if you have limited knife funds, there are better values out there.
 
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