History of Cold Steel Trail Masters (and Recon Scout)

[jlauffer]

Excellent post and beautiful pictures. It is very interesting to follow the history of these models. I have a Recon Scout which is marked "China" on the ricasso. Someone told me it could be a legit modell because Cold steel switched to China for a couple of years after Camillus quit their production. It was purchased in 2008. I have no idea if that is true or not. Maybe it is just a fake China copy? Could anyone please shed some light on this?

Yes, the TM and RS (and others) were made in China for at least one year...2007 I believe...after Camillus/Carbon V went away. They then switched over pretty quickly to Taiwan.

 

[ManRay]

Does anybody here recall what the stag handled trailmasters cost when available new?

 

[vjb.knife]

In 1990 a standard Trailmaster retailed for $225 and sold for as little as $180. Wholesale was about $90 and I once traded one for a Ruger Mark I straight up. The stag handle model was about $50 more.

 

[The Whip]

I recently discovered the Ontario Knife Trail Bowie, which has direct (and obvious) ties to the Cold Steel Trail Master. As the knife's background sheds light on part of the Trail Master's history, I figured that I'd share here what I learned about it. It's a rather intriguing piece!

The only place that I've seen the Trail Bowie is in listings on the WorthPoint auction site. So far, there have been three sold that I know of. Of those, one had no sheath, one had the wrong sheath, and one had a damaged Trail Master sheath. I suspect this means that they were sold originally without sheaths, but I'm guessing. Within the auction write-ups, only one contained genuinely useful information. Here's what the seller had to say about the model's history.

I'm including photos from all three auctions, so as to provide as many examples of the knife as can be mustered.

-Steve

 

[jlauffer]

I recently discovered the Ontario Knife Trail Bowie, which has direct (and obvious) ties to the Cold Steel Trail Master. As the knife's background sheds light on part of the Trail Master's history, I figured that I'd share here what I learned about it. It's a rather intriguing piece!

The only place that I've seen the Trail Bowie is in listings on the WorthPoint auction site. So far, there have been three sold that I know of. Of those, one had no sheath, one had the wrong sheath, and one had a damaged Trail Master sheath. I suspect this means that they were sold originally without sheaths, but I'm guessing. Within the auction write-ups, only one contained genuinely useful information. Here's what the seller had to say about the model's history.

I'm including photos from all three auctions, so as to provide as many examples of the knife as can be mustered.

-Steve

Saw one or two on ebay over the years. Wonder if it would be worth asking about it over in the Ontario sub? There's an Ask Ontario thread...

 

[The Whip]

Saw one or two on ebay over the years. Wonder if it would be worth asking about it over in the Ontario sub? There's an Ask Ontario thread...

Couldn't hurt to ask. Knowledgable old-timers there might be able to answer whether Ontario made the Kraton-handled version in addition to the stag-handled models. If you get an answer, please let us know here, as I won't see it in the Ontario subforum (I like Ontario knives, just not enough to frequent the sub).


-Steve

 

[boomstickman71]

Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I've learned a lot today. Turns out mine is a first Gen.

 

[jlauffer]

Couldn't hurt to ask. Knowledgable old-timers there might be able to answer whether Ontario made the Kraton-handled version in addition to the stag-handled models. If you get an answer, please let us know here, as I won't see it in the Ontario subforum (I like Ontario knives, just not enough to frequent the sub).


-Steve

Reply from Dan Maragni:

"This is the first time I have ever seen this knife. It is the Cold Steel Stag Trailmaster with an Ontario logo and must have been made after Cold Steel moved it's US manufacturing to Camillus Cutlery Company in 1996.

The stag is beautiful, we used to get it hand selected from Masecraft in Connecticut and every piece was perfect (I used to inspect every piece prior to assembly)."

 

[The Whip]

Reply from Dan Maragni:

"This is the first time I have ever seen this knife. It is the Cold Steel Stag Trailmaster with an Ontario logo and must have been made after Cold Steel moved it's US manufacturing to Camillus Cutlery Company in 1996.

The stag is beautiful, we used to get it hand selected from Masecraft in Connecticut and every piece was perfect (I used to inspect every piece prior to assembly)."

Great information straight from the man who would know! Thank you, John! I'm surprised he wasn't aware of it. Ontario must have made them very quietly after the contract ended, and I'm guessing there aren't many.


-Steve

 

[TC]

Stag Trail Master - #16S

Period:

Gen 1: 1988? – 1991? The May 1988 article mentions the Stag version being available, so it didn’t lag behind the regular model much, if at all.

Gen 2: 1995 - 2001

Blade Steel: Carbon V; all of the ones I have seen have a regular V-edge

Blade Markings: Same as the Gen 1 and Gen 2 regular TMs...here is an example of the Gen 1:

Sheath: Brown leather. Early Gen 1’s have the strap that goes around the handle, while later ones may have the strap that goes over the guard. Gen 2’s have the strap that goes over the guard.


====================================================================================================

Stainless Trail Master - #16JS

Period:

Gen 1: Not exactly sure, but figure late 80’s – early 90’s

Gen 2: 1998 - 2001

Blade Steel:

Gen 1: Cold Steel’s “400 Series Stainless”; convex edge

Gen 2: AUS 6A; convex edge. The 1998 and 1999 catalogs mention both AUS 6A and 8A, but later catalogs only say AUS 6A, so I am guessing the 8A is a mistake and that they are all AUS 6A AUS6A

Blade Markings:

Gen 1:

Side 1:
TRAIL MASTER logo

Side 2:
COLD STEEL, INC
VENTURA, CALIF
MADE IN JAPAN

Gen 2:

Side 1:
TRAIL MASTER logo

Side 2:
COLD STEEL logo
MADE IN JAPAN

Sheath: Black Cordura/nylon


==================================================================================

Flight of the Intruder Trail Master - #16JSB

Cold Steel made a special TM for Willem Dafoe’s character in the Flight of the Intruder movie, and then offered a limited edition of 500 replicas for sale. Unlike the regular TM, it has a black micarta handle, and a blacked out blade finish. Apparently at the time it was very difficult to black out stainless steel, so when you do see these, they may have blemishes in the finish. Also came with a CoA. The 1992 catalog lists the model # as 16B, but the box label on mine says 16JSB.

Period: 1992? The movie came out in 1991, and this knife is in the 1992 catalog, but not sure if it was available before 1992.

Blade Steel: Cold Steel’s “400 Series Stainless”; convex edge

Blade Markings:

Side 1:
INTRUDER logo and serial number

Side 2:
COLD STEEL, INC
VENTURA, CALIF
MADE IN JAPAN

Sheath: Black leather, with strap that goes over guard

Thanks for some fantastic info here. Came across this thread when doing some research on the Trail Master...

Have been offered this sample with the black coating, seller says Carbon V and made in China. Does that sound legit? Didn't see any mention of the steel used for the China-made knives in the thread.

 

[jdk1]

Thanks for some fantastic info here. Came across this thread when doing some research on the Trail Master...

Have been offered this sample with the black coating, seller says Carbon V and made in China. Does that sound legit? Didn't see any mention of the steel used for the China-made knives in the thread.

In my limited knowledge, CS used SK5 in Chinese knives. I'm wondering about the sheath as well. At that point, I don't believe they used leather. It should've been nylon or Secure-Ex. Hopefully someone can confirm this info, but I believe that's a fake.

 

[jlauffer]

Thanks for some fantastic info here. Came across this thread when doing some research on the Trail Master...

Have been offered this sample with the black coating, seller says Carbon V and made in China. Does that sound legit? Didn't see any mention of the steel used for the China-made knives in the thread.

Looks legit, and if so, would be SK-5. The 2007 and 2008 catalogs show the black-coated TM with leather sheath in their Combat Classics line. 2006 was the last year of Carbon V, and starting in 2008 they weren't coated anymore. In the 2011 and later catalogs they show SecureEx sheaths, and in 2013 they switched to O-1 steel.

 

[The Whip]

Thanks for some fantastic info here. Came across this thread when doing some research on the Trail Master...

Have been offered this sample with the black coating, seller says Carbon V and made in China. Does that sound legit? Didn't see any mention of the steel used for the China-made knives in the thread.

The sheath definitely looks right. But two things about the knife give me pause. According to both the 2007 and 2008 catalogs, the Trail Master logo should be stamped (including the Registered mark) and filled in with coating, not etched and silver or shiny. Also, the lanyard tube should be silver, not brass.


2007

2008

Perhaps variations exist. But based on that single photo and the catalog examples, I think your knife is a counterfeit. Here are some photos of counterfeit Trail Masters that resemble yours. The boxes explain why your seller believes the steel to be Carbon V.

-Steve

 

[jlauffer]

The sheath definitely looks right. But two things about the knife give me pause. According to both the 2007 and 2008 catalogs, the Trail Master logo should be stamped (including the Registered mark) and filled in with coating, not etched and silver or shiny. Also, the lanyard tube should be silver, not brass.


2007

2008

Perhaps variations exist. But based on that single photo and the catalog examples, I think your knife is a counterfeit. Here are some photos of counterfeit Trail Masters that resemble yours. The boxes explain why your seller believes the steel to be Carbon V.

-Steve

They were still using the Carbon V pics from previous catalogs. Only the Carbon V version had the stamped markings. The black-coated SK5's had the white (or silver?) markings. So nothing in the pic says fake to me, but if there is a box and it says Carbon V, that would be a red flag.

 

[The Whip]

They were still using the Carbon V pics from previous catalogs. Only the Carbon V version had the stamped markings. The black-coated SK5's had the white (or silver?) markings. So nothing in the pic says fake to me, but if there is a box and it says Carbon V, that would be a red flag.

Do you have any photos of legitimate SK-5 China-made Trail Masters? They definitely belong in this thread.


-Steve

 

[TC]

jlauffer T The Whip
Hey, thanks for the additional info guys! I'll see if the seller will provide some detail photos of the blade markings. Don't think it comes with the box.

 

[jlauffer]

Do you have any photos of legitimate SK-5 China-made Trail Masters? They definitely belong in this thread.


-Steve

Sorry, I don't. Had never intended to update any of the history threads with newer versions, and TBH, I lost a lot of interest once they switched everything to China and then Taiwan.

 

[nephron]

If you plug in Trailmaster SK-5 and pick images you get some but the quality (and legitimacy) is questionable on many.
Found this though.

 

[The Whip]

Sorry, I don't. Had never intended to update any of the history threads with newer versions, and TBH, I lost a lot of interest once they switched everything to China and then Taiwan.

I understand completely. Can't own them all! I also lost a lot of interest after manufacturing left the U.S.

The only person I recall who had one that definitely was legitimate was Mike Sastre. T TC , Mike's unfortunately no longer on these pages, but you might search the term "China Doll" among his postings to see if he ever posted a picture of his. The made-in-China SK-5 run was very limited, so chances for a fake are much greater than for the real thing.


-Steve

 

[KenHash]

Those China made TMs remain a mystery to me. I only know that they used SK5 (which at that time was imported from Japan), that they were Black, the guard was also SK5 (not brass or stainless) under the black, and that their run was short lived with Cold Steel saying that "quality control" was the reason for switching to Taiwan production.
Presumably the same for the China made Recon Scout and Laredo Bowie.
Whether that "quality" reason was the real issue or not I don't know, but taking that at face value, despite having owned Carbon V. Japan Aus6, Taiwan 01 and Japan San Mai TMs over the years, I was never inspired to purchase a China made on. After all, if Cold Steel themselves weren't satisfied with the quality, why should I chase after one?

Leaving that issue aside, with so few China made TMs around, I could never feel confident that I could succesfully differentiate an authentic one from a counterfeit. A friend of mine once saiud to me that maybe I shouldn't care because they probably originate in the same factory anyway. lol

The Cold Steel Rep when he was still on this subforum said that he has never seen a black TM with WHITE lettering and considered that suspect.

Still, even for curiosity's sake, I'd like to see an actual authentic China made TM for reference.
Yes, I remember Mike going on about those "China dolls" as good deals. But of course I believe he was selling them at the time.