History of Cold Steel Trail Masters (and Recon Scout)

EveryDayIsHalloween said:
I’ve been trying to figure out/confirm what steel this Recon Scout is. Anyone care to check it out? Was told it is O-1, but elsewhere SK-5
Thank you for any assistance
P.S. it is a SecureEx sheath

Recon Scout Imgur Uploads
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As far as I know, anything with O-1 was marked as such, so I would say yours is most likely SK-5.
 
I found a fascinating tidbit hiding in the archives. I hope its not a rehash, as I've never heard it before. It explains the limited production Carbon V Trailmasters made in Seki, Japan. See post #7 Old Bladeforums TM Thread

Hey Tatsu, your Trailmaster in Carbon V was made in Seki Japan. About 5 years ago + or - Cold Steel had a problem with their workers (rumor was about pay) and Cold Steel decided to have the Japanese have a try at making the Trailmaster. According to the Special Projects Catalog where I remember these Japanese Carbon V blades being sold, these paticular Trailmasters didn't meet Cold Steels Specs...however they weren't factory seconds either. So Special Projects division of Cold Steel sold them through their catalog and Cold Steel had the Trailmaster made in the US again...so thats the Trailmaster you have, a Carbon V sort of limited edition of Japanese make...hope this helps!
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jlauffer said:
Carbon V Trail Master with black epoxy-coated blade/guard - #16CB

nX36ykgl.jpg


Period: 2002 - 2006

Blade Steel: Carbon V

Blade Markings (stamped):

Side 1:
TRAIL MASTER logo

Side 2:
COLD STEEL USA

p2FS4JBl.jpg


Sheath: Black leather, with strap that goes over guard

==================================================================================

San Mai III Trail Master - #16JSM

O1CDQSYl.jpg


Period: 1998 - 2005 (San Mai III); 2006 – Present (VG-1 San Mai III)

Blade Steel: San Mai III and VG-1 San Mai III; convex edge

Blade Markings: There are 2 versions that I know of:

1) Side 1:
TRAIL MASTER logo
SAN MAi III logo

Side 2:
COLD STEEL logo
MADE IN JAPAN

S7NVEQ6l.jpg


2) Side 1:
TRAIL MASTER logo
VG-1 SAN MAi III logo

Side 2:
COLD STEEL logo
MADE IN JAPAN

wSMyaVll.jpg


Sheath: Black Cordura/nylon

==================================================================================

Carbon V Recon Scout

Since the Recon Scout is basically just a shortened TM, I figured I would include it as well. I believe there are 3 versions of the CV Recon Scout:

1. First pre-production batch that was only available to the military for Desert Storm. Has the Gen 1 ricasso/choil, and a slight recurve blade. Wasn’t even called the Recon Scout yet, and there were no markings on the knife (sterile). The blade had more of a parkerized finish than the later epoxy coating.

UqZaGNTl.jpg
usxjiKPl.jpg


Period: 1990 – 1991

Sheath: Black Cordura/nylon

Blade Markings: None


2. First production version offered to the public. Was still Gen 1, and was now called the Recon Scout, but they were still sterile, and the recurve was gone. Blade was epoxy-coated. The 1992 catalog says that they were a Special Projects exclusive. I don’t believe they even came in a box, just a bag, and included a little blue info card. Most of the ones I have seen for sale are missing the card.

vfW3pf5l.jpg
3iHSnBgl.jpg


Comparison of recurve version (top) and regular version (bottom):

UfFnzW5l.jpg


Period: 1992 – 1994. It is shown in the 1992 Special Projects catalog and the 93/94 catalog.

Sheath: Black Cordura/nylon

Blade Markings: None


3. Final CV version, with Gen 2 ricasso/choil, epoxy coating, and markings.

60FOnPAl.jpg
QYCdtXLl.jpg


Period: 1995 – 2006

Blade Markings (stamped):

1) Side 1:
COLD STEEL

Side 2:
USA CARBON V

vH93FMil.jpg


Sheath: Black Cordura/nylon (1990 – 1997); Black leather (1998 – 2003); Secure-Ex (2004 – 2006)


Misc: I acquired a very unusual Recon Scout off eBay a while back. It had the Gen 1 ricasso/choil, and was parkerized like the recurved version, but didn’t have the recurve, and it had large “billboard” markings on both sides of the blade. Only one I’ve ever seen, so thinking it may be some sort of prototype or promotional piece.

7g8JgY1l.jpg
hPOE8L2l.jpg


On the one side it is pretty easy to read COLD STEEL with VENTURA CA underneath. On the other side, can see RECON SCOUT easily enough, but underneath is not complete. Can make out what looks like ARBON and TEEL, so pretty sure it said CARBON V STEEL.

C2CbXD0l.jpg
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Thank you VERY MUCH for all this effort!
MUCH APPRECIATED
!!!

Bring back all C.S info forums !
 
Greetings from Germany.

I aqcuired an older Trailmaster on the aftermarket two years ago. It looks exactly like the model "16CB" depicted on the first picture in post #3 (and the one depicted in the official catalog from 2005, page 25) -regarding stamping, choil, sheath etc.

The coated blade is not stainless, so I'm pretty save to assume it's carbon steel (if it's really from 2005 it should be Carbon V)...
The lanyard tube is brass.

Since the knife has obviously been quite heavily used by its previous owner, the coating has come off the guard in some spots.

The metal exposed on the guard is of silver colour and doesn't look at all like brass to me. More like steel or maybe nickel silver.
Also, the exposed metal on the guard does not tarnish like brass does (...the lanyard tube is tarnished and its brass looks completely different than the guard).

[I even filed off some tiny flakes to chemically check if they contain copper, the main ingredient of brass (I'm a pharmacist and able to access some chemicals...). The test was negative - I don't rely too much on this test, though, since the amount of shards was very small, hence it was maybe not sufficient for a proper detection... I did't do a blind or comparitive test.]

All in all, I assume the handguard is not brass. Which brings me to this statement from the opening post:

jlauffer said:
All carbon TMs (Carbon V, SK-5, O-1) have brass guards and lanyard holes, even the guard on the black epoxy-coated version was brass underneath. All stainless TMs (AUS 6A and SMIII) have stainless guards and lanyard holes.
Click to expand...

Is there actually a source for this information? I didn't find anything, anywhere else about that.

Of course, it might be possible I acquired a fake version. But the knife doesn't look like the other fake versions you can find online. Also, the dealer is long established and reknowned in the "knife scene" over here; and he doesn't sell fakes or other crap.
(The price was reasonable for a sought-after knife like this in such a used condition, even if it's not in Carbon V.

Moreover, it doesn't seem very likely to me to use brass as a metal in the first place if one plans to cover it with black coating afterwards (...normally brass is used because it looks like -you know- brass...). I can't think of any other example, where brass has been used on knife hardware and was coated afterwards.

Anybody else who owns a carbon version without a brass guard?
Thanks in advance for any help and/or information...
 
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FrankBooth said:
Greetings from Germany.

I aqcuired an older Trailmaster on the aftermarket two years ago. It looks exactly like the model "16CB" depicted on the first picture in post #3 (and the one depicted in the official catalog from 2005, page 25) -regarding stamping, choil, sheath etc.

The coated blade is not stainless, so I'm pretty save to assume it's carbon steel (if it's really from 2005 it should be Carbon V)...
The lanyard tube is brass.

Since the knife has obviously been quite heavily used by its previous owner, the coating has come off the guard in some spots.

The metal exposed on the guard is of silver colour and doesn't look at all like brass to me. More like steel or maybe nickel silver.
Also, the exposed metal on the guard does not tarnish like brass does (...the lanyard tube is tarnisched and its brass looks completely different than the guard).

[I even filed off some tiny flakes to chemically check if they contain copper, the main ingredient of brass (I'm a pharmacist and able to access some chemicals...). The test was negative - I don't rely too much on this test, though, since the amount of shards was very small, hence it was maybe not sufficient for a proper detection... I did't do a blind or comparitive test.]

All in all, I assume the handguard is not brass. Which brings me to this statement from the opening post:



Is there actually a source for this information? I didn't find anything, anywhere else about that.

Of course, it might be possible I acquired a fake version. But the knife doesn't look like the other fake versions you can find online. Also, the dealer is long established and reknowned in the "knife scene" over here; and he doesn't sell fakes or other crap.
(The price was reasonable for a sought-after knife like this in such a used condition, even if it's not in Carbon V.

Moreover, it doesn't seem very likely to me to use brass as a metal in the first place if one plans to cover it with black coating afterwards (...normally brass is used because it looks like -you know- brass...). I can't think of any other example, where brass has been used on knife hardware and was coated afterwards.

Anybody else who owns a carbon version without a brass guard?
Thanks in advance for any help and/or information...
Click to expand...
Hi Frank! Good question, and unfortunately I can't seem to find evidence to back it up. I had originally posted these histories on Cold Steel's own forum many years ago, and then recreated them here after the CS forum shut down. Normally I wouldn't state something as fact like that unless I was absolutely sure it was correct, so I'm guessing that I either asked the question back then, and someone from CS answered, or I found something somewhere that mentioned it. Otherwise I would have said something like "I think" or "I believe" to indicate it was an educated guess that I wasn't 100% sure about.

I do know that I have seen coated TMs and Recon Scouts with chipped guards that definitely were brass, so at least some were made that way. But it's certainly possible they changed at some point. As for why they would coat brass, I don't know if there are/were any technical issues with epoxy coating stainless compared to brass that made brass a better choice.

Could you post some pics of yours? At your membership level you'll need to use a hosting site like imgur or postimages.
 
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jlauffer said:
[...] Could you post some pics of yours? At your membership level you'll need to use a hosting site like imgur or postimages.
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Hi jlauffer,
thanks for the fast response!
I'll try to take some pics and find an image host, ASAP...
I also contacted CS via their website. But I don't know if they're able and willing to answer that.
Kind regards,
FrankBooth
 
FrankBooth said:
Hi jlauffer,
thanks for the fast response!
I'll try to take some pics and find an image host, ASAP...
I also contacted CS via their website. But I don't know if they're able and willing to answer that.
Kind regards,
FrankBooth
Click to expand...
Yeah unfortunately with the GSM buyout, I don't think there's anyone left that could answer that.
 
jlauffer said:
Yeah unfortunately with the GSM buyout, I don't think there's anyone left that could answer that.
Click to expand...
You're probably right... 😉

Knife with sheath:


Handle for camparison lanyard tube/guard:


Close-up guard:




Close-up lanyard tube:


Stampings - just for reference...



Sorry for the crappy pics. Had to take them with my mobile since I don't have a proper camera at the moment.
I hope the difference in the colour of the metals is recognisable.
 
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FrankBooth said:
You're probably right... 😉

Knife with sheath:


Handle for camparison lanyard tube/guard:


Close-up guard:




Close-up lanyard tube:


Stampings - just for reference...



Sorry for the crappy pics. Had to take them with my mobile since I don't have a proper camera at the moment.
I hope the difference in the colour of the metals is recognisable.
Click to expand...
Yep, definitely looks legit
 
FrankBooth said:
You're probably right... 😉

Knife with sheath:


Handle for camparison lanyard tube/guard:


Close-up guard:




Close-up lanyard tube:


Stampings - just for reference...



Sorry for the crappy pics. Had to take them with my mobile since I don't have a proper camera at the moment.
I hope the difference in the colour of the metals is recognisable.
Click to expand...

I definitely agree that your guard isn't brass. Can you test it with a magnet to determine if it's ferrous? It's just my supposition, but I believe it's probably aluminum. I say that based on Cold Steel's past use (though both rare and brief) of aluminum guards on the Tanto.

Here are another member's photos of his uncoated Tanto guard in aluminum. (The pommel was also aluminum.)

IMG-0186.jpg


IMG-0187.jpg


While I don't know it for a fact because the coating is pristine, I'm fairly certain that my blackened version of that knife also has an aluminum guard (and pommel). It definitely doesn't feel like brass.

IMG-0793.jpg


IMG-0794.jpg



It seems to me that aluminum would be easier to coat than either brass or stainless steel. It certainly would be cheaper than both.

If aluminum was used instead of brass or steel, I wonder if Cold Steel was even aware of it. I'm not making any accusations or questioning any company's integrity, but an unscrupulous manufacturer trying to cut costs could swap the materials used on a coated part without ever informing the client. (However, I have to believe that the rigorous testing to which Cold Steel subjected its knives would expose such fraudulent actions pretty quickly. Evaluating manufacturing quality was one of the reasons that Cold Steel conducted the destruction tests.)


-Steve
 
FrankBooth said:
Geez, ...why didn't I think of that. 🤦‍♂️ I am so screwy and nerdy, that I think of filing off shavings for a chemical analysis instead of going for the much simpler solution. 🤪🤓

To make it short: Yes, the magnet sticks. Not quite as strong as on the blade, but it sticks.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

So it's not aluminum after all but some type of stainless steel. Good to know!


-Steve
 
I was reading an old thread about the handle and tang of the Trailmaster and someone wanted to see pictures of the radiusing at the location where the blade necks down to the smaller tang. Since no one presented one, I thought I'd post what I found in this sticky.

HtSkSd5.jpeg


This is from the JoeX video for the 3V Trailmaster: (around 36-37 minutes in)

It's interesting that the knife broke in several places but not the one's people usually worry about.

The radius apparently worked fine, and the spot welds for the crossguard broke free but did not cause any fracture.

You can search YouTube for the video with this title:

COLD STEEL TRAILMASTER - CPM3V STEEL - GSM EDITION - DESTRUCTION TEST - UNTIL IT BREAKS - IT IS OVER - YouTube
 
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I wonder if we should add the Laredo Bowie to this thread? It's very close to the Trailmaster and has been around a long time, with several iterations. The Natchez is quite different, but an argument could be made for inclusion , since it's a premium bowie. Since we're steering the ship on this subforum, what does the brain trust think?
 
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