Hitachi Shiro-gami and Ao-gami Steels

Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith

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As many in the US and Canada have found, getting Hitachi white paper and blue paper steel can be a bit of a trick. I have called and emailed Hitachi US and got no where. I was willing to make a large purchase, but they don't really want North America to compete with the Japanese makers on this steel. If they had a North American distributor, there is no doubt that they would sell a lot of steel....but they don't....why????
I really believe they are trying to keep a monopoly on it as a Japanese knife steel. The success of great makers like Takeda Hamono would be challenged if the hundreds of good US and Canadian makers had free access to this steel. The very high prices the Japanese makers get would fall drastically if competition entered the scene.

I have found a supplier in the UK that carries a fair selection of these steels and some others. They supply the tool makers, who also love these steels.
The company is called Workshop Heaven. The companies communication is excellent.:
http://www.workshopheaven.com/tools/steel_billets.html

I ordered two 19"bars of #2 white, and two of #2 blue; two 13" bars of #2 white core layered san-mai, and two bars of #2 white san-mai with soft iron sides. These were all shipped promptly for about $300 plus $50 shipping. That works out to about $30 per pound shipped. Not dirt cheap, but that will make about 12-15 Japanese style cooking knives. Each should bring near what I paid for the whole batch.



Another supplier I have found is in Germany. It is Dictum Co.:
http://www.mehr-als-werkzeug.de/category/Staehle-3624_3628.htm?lang=en

I haven't ordered from them yet, but they ship worldwide and the pricing seems OK. They have some good products.



A few words on the nomenclature and how to use these steels:
The words Ao and Shiro mean blue and white. Gami means metal. The numbers 1 and 2 are grade differences. It all has to do with the carbon content and the alloy content.
The white paper steel is super pure. It has very low alloy content and high carbon. It is super for hamon blades.
The blue paper has some alloying added, and is high carbon. It makes really sharp and tough working knives for chefs. These two steels are considered the cream of the crop in fine blades.
Suminagashi is a laminated billet with a white paper core and layered sides. It is a low-layer damascus with a medium thick solid core. The wavy upper sides add a good look to medium and large blades.
The laminated steel has a thin white paper core and soft iron ( like wrought iron) sides. It makes great slicers with a dark spine and a bright edge. When grinding it, you have to make sure you orient the core at the final edge. This makes a really good looking and tough small to medium size knife. It is also perfect for a tanto blade or small wakizashi.


So, does anyone have any other source for Ao and Shiro gami steel they wish to share?
 
Hi Stacy, I find the international business aspects of this interesting..

From a technical standpoint, are there more common steels you would compare these to, simply as a frame of reference for the uninitiated?

Thanks,

-Daizee
 
That is where Hitachi has us.....There is no equivalent steel to these as far as I know.

W1, W2, and 1095 are similar, but not as low alloy as white paper steel. The carbon content is higher in these Hitachi steels, too.

The main advantage of the low alloy is using a water or brine quench without warp and cracking.

Now, as far as equivalent in function and performance, I think many steels will be similar....but they won't have the name recognition that Hitachi steel will give the knife.
What I am saying is a 1095/W2 yanagi-ba and a Hitachi white paper yanagi-ba will be the same knife in looks and cutting ability if made by a proficient smith. However, the buyer will pay more for the Hitachi blade.
 
So then is the white closer to what the Japanese smiths would have used 200 years ago? More like a binary alloy, iron and carbon? Sounds interesting and I bet will produce a hamon unlike anything we are familiar with using.


-Xander
 
That German link was my only previous source of paper steels. Never ordered from them, as I consider the pricing to be prohibitive. I should HOPE that a customer would pay more for a given kitchen knife in white #2 over W2, and hopefully enough more to make the added material cost as well as the trouble of sourcing it worthwhile.

When I consider what I have to charge for my time on knives out of my stock steels, I don't know if I could charge enough more to make paper steels worth it at their crazy prices.

Your deal for the bars shipped to you does seem tolerable, and I'm sure you'll make some nice stuff with it. On the whole, I think you're probably right about the reasons paper steels are so hard to get. It's frustrating for sure.
 
I suspect the price premium is most easily recovered in the somewhat inflated market for the Japanese style knives rather than other genres, but that's just speculation. They've done a good marketing job, for what that's worth.

-Daizee
 
Curious what is the HT for these steels? Is it similar to the 10XX steels or is it more tricky.


EDIT: NVM I just checked out the website and it gives the temps right there. Thanks for the links.
 
I looked at the the 3 layer san mai with the white steel and with shipping 2 - 1.3" x 13 3/4" x just shy of 1/8" thick pieces shipped is around 45-50$ That's not bad to be honest! Plenty big for some nice kitchen knives or slicers in general.


PS - 1 € is just under 1.25$
 
So how does Murray Carter get his White Steel?

It is the only steel he is using now
 
Yes, the white paper #1 is very similar to tamahagane. It is 1.2-1.5% carbon with very little else...and no Mn. White #2 has a little less carbon.
The blue paper#2 is 1.1-1.2% carbon with little Mn, W, Cr, and the normal traces.
 
The German site was where I saw it before as well but I could never find the site again. I thought about trying it from them and then Mike tried to get the group buy going. Its too bad that didn't get anywhere. This would be very expensive stuff to work with (literally 3 times the price of O1) not including customs and duty, but like you said, you could sell one blade for enough to pay for the whole order. There is no way I am good enough to "play" with it yet but I wouldnt mind having some to work with from time to time. Who knows, maybe in a dozen years, I will be good enough to sell a blade to the sushi place I frequent :)
 
What I heard over on the kitchen knife forum is that Hitachi will sell you the stuff........at outrageous prices per pound and in large amounts. I also heard that Murray Carter is able to get the stuff because he had a customer relationship with Hitachi in Japana for almost 20 years. He is an "existing retail customer."
 
I asked around no luck yet. I'll see if I can befriend a knife maker here and maybe try and help the forum out. I'm no Knife maker but 'IF' I were to get a group buy, Id have to send it in bulk (I have shipping connections here and in Korea so price shouldn't be too bad) to someone states side to distribute it. What kind steel would be most popular?
 
Man... I'd really be interested in some of that white (#1 or #2) and the san mai in bars 1-1/2" to 2" wide and 1/8" to 1/4" thick if the price were reasonable (that's the key). ;)
 
Likewise, Erin. I would love to get some of that San Mai to work on... (and the #2 white as well)
 
Yeah, color me reservedly enthused- I'd be very interested in white #1 and/or #2 if such a thing could work out.
 
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