Hittin' The Big Time??

Les
That sounds like a good way to go for some people. Give them a leg up so that they know where to go and why they are going there. Nowadays it is not enough to make a good knife, you have to sell it. This gives direction.
Sic'em
 
Lots of great advice , I'm learning alot just lurking, thought I'd throw in my 2cents.

I don't think any one ever knows if there in the big time . You can be on top of the world one day and not the next . If your in the custom knifemaking business to make alot of money your in it for the wrong reasons.

For the new guy he first needs to consume everybit of knife information he /she can.Read everything .

Craftmanship, He /she needs to learn how to build a great knife and develop the hand /eye dexterity to do repetitive knives with minimal mistakes .

Challenge yourself, To many knifemakers learn one way of doing something and never try any thing else.They never go to the next level.Do a full tang ,tapered tang ,Rabbett tang , Stick tang , fighter ,hunter,utility ,folder ,linerlock, backlock ,whatever. Be as versitile as you can be and good at it !Because you learn a lot from each one .

Learn how to grind your knives freehand .None of these cheater grinding fixtures especially in the begining they will limit your capacity.

Keep your ear on the pulse of the industry .Learn what people want.This forum is an invaluable source use it .

Be original! Don't be one of those guys that build all Loveless copies as they are wonderful knives but you won't get any points for bieng original. YOU CANNOT LEAD BY FOLLOWING!! You really need to develop your own style,flare ,copying others in the begining is ok but you shouldn't make a career out of it .

Question everything , And try to make it better.Think of what you are going to be doing with the knife you are designing and figure out how to make it better.

Never forget your customers. Especially the guys that that have been there since the begining .

Go to shows , I'm a lousey person to talk I'd love to do more shows I just live on the other side of the planet and it thins out my wallet to do many. But you got to get out There and meet people with a big smile and a firm handshake .

Never take more orders than you can honestly make . I hate to turn down an order but it's better than not delivering .You can have the best of intentions but you need be realistic with reguard to delivery dates.

Get photos taken by reputable knife photographer. And submit them to the magazines . Just remember the best marketing is word of mouth. Never do anything that can come back to haunt you. honesty, honesty , honesty.No skeletons

Phew ! thyats the most I think I've ever typed in one setting in my life!

I may be wrong ,but I don't think so there are no short cuts . It's a lot of hard work and it takes a real commitment. If you think this is an easy way to make a living , it's not.

One more thing . Design alot, Sketch out new ideas as soon as you get them, learn how to take the image in your head and put it on paper.


Good luck! Aloha!
 
Hey Fisk,

Just taking a lesson from the Master of the ABS. Got any more of them $8.00 knives.

Id even take some of them $10.00 knives!

LOL

Les
 
Lots of good advice.

But which shows, how often, what should the product mix be????

WHich magazine, how often, what size ad, which knife for which issue.

How do you get Free advertising?

How do you get articles written about your knives????

How do you do all of this on a budget????

How do you get the "buzz" started about your knvies???

How do you get people to notice you and your knives????

Belive it or not, the answers are fairly simple. But never easy or cheap.

Les
 
Dang Les,
You keep putting that stuff in here and I am going to sign up myself. You do have a handle on the marketing of knives.
Funny thing, we tried doing a marketing seminar mixed in with our hammer-in here. The only people that showed up was the people who do good anyway with the marketing end of it. Everyone else didn't even realize they needed that info. Sorry Les, I be out of them $8.00 babies. But, that was about what they were worth.
 
Hi Jerry,

You know, it's a funny thing about knife makers. The one's that seem to do the best are the one's who don't think they know everything. They are always looking for ways to improve both their knife making and the way they handle their business.

These are the same guys you talk to show after show who seem to be doing well. You never hear them complain about " the market must be bad or slow".

Ill let you in on a secret boys and girls, if your not doing well in today's market. You better rethink the way you do things. Cause the market will slow and people may not have as much "disposable income" as they did.

Jerry, as always I tip my cowboy hat (if I had one)to you. You sir, are the quintessential Knifmaker/Business man.

For those of you who may be interested Mr. Fisk has written a book on this very subject we are writing on.

I highly advise every knife maker to buy one.

I don't make knives, I just help people get the best knife value for their money!

Les
 
WOW!!!!!!!!!!YOU GUYS SURE DO HAVE THE KNOWLEDGE AND I REALLY APPRECIATE YOU SHARING IT! I SELL MY KNIVES VIRTUALLY AS FAST AS I CAN MAKE THEM, ESPECIALLY NOW THAT I'M ONLINE AND HAVE ACCESS TO EBAY. I GUESS I JUST HAVE TO LET THINGS HAPPEN IN THEIR OWN TIME. ITS JUST TOUGH SEEING ALL THOSE KNIFE PICTURES IN BOOKS AND MAGAZINES AND KNOWING NONE OF MINE ARE AMONG THEM. MY MOTTO IS "KEEP POKIN AT IT". I GUESS THATS WHAT I'LL DO. TAKE CARE FORUMITES!!! MICHAEL

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"Always think of your fellow knife makers as partners in the search for the perfect blade, not as people trying to compete with you and your work!"
 
I'm a "newbie" trying to get started and this seems to work well for me: I made a bunch of relatively inexpensive kitchen knives and displayed them at a local arts and crafts show along with some of the hunting knives I have. I sold seven kitchen knives and one hunting knife in two days.

Since it was local, this was inexpensive, the kitchen knives were good practice for developing my skills, and it gave me experience in table layout and customer relations.

Seems like a good way to start.....

Carl
 


L6, so why aren’t any of those photos yours in the magazines? Have you sent any in? The photo pages in TK are free. I try to run a wide cross section of types of knives and I favor people that I haven’t heard of before. All I ask is the photo be of first class quality and the knife be functional for something.
I tend to get the impression “the big time” doesn’t mean "running a successful business selling handcrafted knives" to most custom knifemakers. I think they would rather think of themselves as the cutlery equivalent of a rock star with the knife magazines acting as fan news publications.

 
L6 and others who want to hit the big time. Steven makes a good point, where are your photo's.

Just for the pure educational experience, I would tell all knife makers to get a copy of Knives 94 and Knives 99. Go through and note all the makers who were listed in 94 and who were not listed. Compare that with those makes listed and not listed in Knives 99. I think you will be amazed at the huge change in names listed/not listed.

Where did these makers go, where did these makers come from?

Most who are no longer listed are gone because they did not possess the business skills to make their operation profitable in the early years.

Makers, it is no longer enough just to make a good knife.

You have to work with the magazines and support them with advertising dollars. In turn they will support you.

You have to spend the money on professional photographs.

In short, you have to treat the advertising portion of your business with the same care as you do any other aspect of your business.

For myself, the first ad I ran in Tactical Knives was directly responsible for $18,000.00 worth of sales from new customers in 1 Month!

I have never missed advertising in an issue of this magainze in over 4 years. Tactical Knives has been an integral part of the growth of Robertson's Custom Cutlery and LDC Custom Knives.

You say you don't make a tactical knife. Fine, develop a realtionship with another magazine and stay with them.

Marketing experts will tell you it takes approximately 5 times getting your name in front of a client for them to notice you.

To use Steven's Rock Star comparison. Most rock bands spend between 7-12 years before they get that first contract (if ever).

The "overnight sensation" status given to many now well known knifemakers took about 10 years.

The first question to ask yourself is:
Do I want to be a professional knife maker?

The second question is:

Or do I just want to be a hobbiest? There is nothing wrong with the second choice.

However, if you are going to be a professional, act like it. Get a business plan and a marketing plan (advertising).

These two plans will show you what the market is, what your position is in that market, and how you can raise your position in that market.

Do you need these plans...no. But 5 years from now don't compalin that people still don't know who you are.

Les

 
Tony Robins ER Oh Les,

Great points in all respects. What about the maker who only has two hands and they don't go fast enough to cover the orders?

Making money is alwayse a good thing however , what about the guy who really just likes to make knives more than making a killing ?

It can be a very difficult climb to rise to the top of knifemaking off of your craft and contributions rather than your yearly gross but very rewarding .Even harder to do both. Any suggestions?

Jerry has done both as well as achieve National Living Treasure. Whats your secret Jerry other than that Dentyne smile and wicked good looks?
smile.gif


Aloka Ken Onion
 
Ken,
Gotta toss in his sense of humor too.

 
Hi Ken,

Is there a maker that has three or four hands? Does anyone get more than 24 hours in a day?

Your questions lead you right into the reason(s) you need to have a Business Plan.

Belive it or not the answers to your questions, while not easy are obtainable.

Ken, the questions you and others have asked are all excellent questions. These questions will be asked again in a business plan. It is at this point that you must start to gather intelligence, plan at both the operational and strategic levels. This in turn will identify your competion's strenths and weakness's.

At this point you must also determine which course of action you will follow. Pre-set your indicators that will you provide you with intelligence that will move you to an alternate course of action if you deem it necessary.

Flexabilty is the key.

Also, while Ken has done this masterfully with the Speed Safe mechanism. To many makers are content with riding on the train and none want to drive the train.

I am not a maker so I do not understand the thought process. While I understand that certain skills must be learned in order to make a knife.

Why waste your time developing skills that allow you to basically make the same knife that everyone else is making.

A marketing plan will offer you several choices for ways to compete. One way is to enter an established market. Try to position yourself on one of the top rungs. Then spend years trying to obtain the top position, which you probably will not attain, due to your late entry in this market.

The smart money is to create a new market. This allows you to be on the top rung immediatley. However, the down side is, you now have to start the path instead of just walking down it.

Example of this is LDC Custom Knives. Bob Neal and I identified a weakness in tactical folders. We saw that too many were being made with little or no difference, models if you will. While these are quality knives and are sought after, there is little or no potential for these knives to increase in value over time.

Also, wait times for many of these makers was too long for the average collector.

Bob and I thus determined to create a new market. This would be knives, by the very same makers that people desired. The difference would be that these knives would be serial numbered and would be avialble for immediate delivery or would be delivered in a time frame substantially less than you could currently get a knife.

We were told that this project would never work. That you could not get 10 makers to produce knives in a timely manner, etc. They were wrong, with one exception. Howard Viele. Howard could write a book on excuses.

However, we did get all the knives and the series was very successful, which spawned a second series of folders and a series of fixed blades. Additionally, we now have clothing and carry systems to compliment the knives.

To date, LDC sales are in excess of $450.000.00. Why is this important? Because the initial investment for this project was $300.00

While growing LDC we had some failures, but many more success's.

We even got our knives on the cover of tactical knives. Additionally, the first two series were featured in both American Handguner and Tactical knives.

A market assessment was made, strength and weakness's were evaluated, a course of action was written up. The necessary actions were implemented. Was all this easy, no. Was this woth the effort yes.

The interesting thing is, in any other industry, others would have seen our success and tried to duplicate it. While a few dealers have come out with one knife at a time. None have tackled multiple knives from different dealers.

Why is this? Because it was a royal pain in the ass to get this accomplished. However, it can be accoplished. Bob and I drove the train.

Ken, you are a perfect example of what I am speaking of. You developed skills and ultimatley mechanisms that distinguished you from your peers.

Every maker strives to develop a style all their own. To produce a model that becomes synanamous with them. Terzuola-ATCF, Carson-Model 4, Emerson-CQC 6, etc. Others develop a style, Mike Franklin-Hawg Knives, Ken Onion-Speed Safe, etc.

While this is difficult it is not unattaniable.

Ken your problem is now, time vs. knives that can be produced to= a postive ROI (retun on investment). Which in your case is both time and money.

At this point multiple mathematical computations come into play. This will suggest a course of action that is best for your particular wants and needs.

Sounds like you need to hire a consultant!

Les

 
This thread has really been a lot of help to me, I have been learning to make knives for many years and never feel too much further ahead than I was at this time last year. I just keep working, thinking and trying to keep an open mind to different approaches. It is helpful to see that other wanna be makers like me have the same questions and concerns. All of your suggestions are valuable and are appreciated, Thanks
 
Great advice here. Case in point, one of "Blade's" Rising stars to watch in 1997 was Vince Evans. If you have a chance to chat with him you'll find that he became a full time maker in 1981. In his case, it only took 16 years to become an overnight success. When talking to Vince he'll tell you, "where were they (the magazines) when I really needed them." Evans' bio is on our website as featured maker.

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Howard A. Faltz, Owner
Arizona Knife Source
"Keep it Sharp"
Luke 22:26
www.azknife.com
 
Ron Glad to have you aboard.
Please Give your dad my best regards.
He spent quite a bit of time with me at the Blade Show a few years ago. We did not talk much about knives, but did talk quite a bit about life and death (I will always appreciate the time he spent with me).
 
Interesting topic. Being good at anything takes time. It is what I call "Playing with the big boys."
I made my first knife in 1981 and spent many years making knives to sell once in a while or as gift. I went full-time 2 years ago. It was a big leap of faith for me. I’ve never regretted it.
First: Ask questions. Knife people are free with advice and suggestions. Utilize the experience of others.
Second: Think. How can I improve my skills, designs, techniques, etc?
Third: Be fair. Value is what brings customers back for future business. I also recommend treating people the way you want to be treated - with respect.
One more thing - Do what you say!
Doing the shows lets you meet people. This is part of paying your dues. I have done shows when I didn't have a single knife to sell, but I needed to be where the people go. I usually got some orders for future business there too.
Word of mouth, I believe, is the best advertisement. People talk. Look at this forum.
Knifemaking is a strange profession. If you don't like what you're doing - quit. This will save you a lot of frustration. However, if your passion returns you to the shop, just enjoy the nature of what you're doing. You're hooked. That's it!
We can't help ourselves. We are compelled.
I love what I do. I wish everyone loved his or her profession as much as I do. It would make for a more pleasant world to live in if people lived in joy.
Knifemaking is hard and dirty work. Few get rich. I feel fortunate to support a family of 7 with my craft.
Work hard, do your best and have fun.
As for techniques for learning - ask questions and trial and error.


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I Carry My Crosses for Christ to Give any Glory to God.
centercross.com
geneosborn@centercross.com
 
Wow!! I didn't think this thread would get this much response. To me, "Hitting The Big Time", isn't selling a knife for $1,000, or making alot of money at it. I think its being recognized as a quality knife maker and having people know my name and want my knives.I want to leave something behind when I'm gone. Something people will hold and look at in a hundred years and say, "Wow". Michael

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"Always think of your fellow knife makers as partners in the search for the perfect blade, not as people trying to compete with you and your work!"
 
Michael,

If you just want everyone to know who you are , that is simple.

I can guarantee that you will be a household name in knives in three years or less.

EDGE Consulting: rccedge@csranet.com

Starting price is $1,000.00

You are a household name in three years or your money back. Note, you will have to follow my marketing plan to the letter.

Now it is time to find you how serious you and others who desire what you want are!

Les

 
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