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Hollow Tube Fasteners
- Thread starter xaman
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- Nov 8, 2005
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Did you strip it or make some custom slabs!?
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- Nov 27, 2005
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Stripped it, in the process of sanding to satin ---- of course this one had the infamous pecker-treks all down one side of the blade...
I went back and forth 3 times in the last 24 hours about wether to keep going or just box it up and send it to Ban!
I'm looking for some nice wood to try my hand at slabs, but i'm not going to throw the micarta away --- i have a sneaky suspicion that the my customs are going to look like junk :foot:
I went back and forth 3 times in the last 24 hours about wether to keep going or just box it up and send it to Ban!
I'm looking for some nice wood to try my hand at slabs, but i'm not going to throw the micarta away --- i have a sneaky suspicion that the my customs are going to look like junk :foot:
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- Nov 27, 2005
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- 9,574
you know, those little grinding marks that look like a wood pecker worked his way down the length of the blade
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2005
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I thought it was akin to a snail trail
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2005
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oh man, I got one side sanded down all the way to 600 grit -- very nice looking satin finish, lost all the tracks.
BUT, there's still some on the ricasso area, where the handle slabe won't cover. Not sure what I was thinking, just focusing on the blade and left them up there on the flats.
Oh well, I've noticed some makers leaving forging marks on the flats... Maybe it's "cool" to leave the little treks :thumbup:
Besides, we wouldn't want a humble little CG getting to think it was a LE...
BUT, there's still some on the ricasso area, where the handle slabe won't cover. Not sure what I was thinking, just focusing on the blade and left them up there on the flats.
Oh well, I've noticed some makers leaving forging marks on the flats... Maybe it's "cool" to leave the little treks :thumbup:
Besides, we wouldn't want a humble little CG getting to think it was a LE...
Long time no talk Xaman.
That blade is looking very nice.
Personally, I would put a few more minutes into cleaning up the ricasso if you will see it. (... yeah, I know - probably another 30 - 60 minutes....)
I wouldn't worry about the areas under the slab.
I have stripped a Bunch of my Busse and kin blades (all that I choose to keep!), but I have yet to have removed the scales. I showed you my SJTAC probably a couple of years ago when I got this:
Wouldn't you know.... out of all of the Busse kin knives I have stripped, this was the only one without Pecker-Treks!
The pits are actually pretty unique on the Desert Jack. They have a pretty interesting and decent looking orange-peel look that is very uniform. So, this is also the only Busse and kin knife that I didn't sand down the pits on the flats.
I hate the pecker treks and the streaky stretched looking marks.
The SJTAC is actually still not finished...
I have done more to it and it is pretyt close. But, I want to remove the scales to finish it properly and have been holding off because of the scales. I might add same micarta spacers to make the handle thicker while I am at it (???).
Talk about MAJOR pecker Treks! The Convex shape of the SJTAC actually has CNC cutter blade treks all over both sides of the entire primary grind. Apparently, the SJTAC was machine "Cut" by CNC for the convex shape instead of flat grind like most Busse and kin blades.
You can see these types of machine marks on the AK-47's blade as well.
But, there are a lot of pits around the ricasso that I can't get to and I want to take the scales off and do it right. I have been trying to find out more myself about how to do it right. But, there isn't much info.
I am not sure what material is best to use for the tubing, stainless, brass, ????? - Where purchased tube material?
I have seen a couple of different posts showing a couple of different methods of expanding the tubes with a vice. But, my main concern is buying the right tubing so it doesn't split or crack when expanded. And where to buy the tubing.
Any more information about the Tube part of the process would be great to know. :thumbup:
Also, what about epoxy or similar material between the scales and tang?
I would think you have to be very carefull when sanding the tang to make sure and keep as perfectly flat as possible. Any round-over would most likely cause gaps between the tang and scales.
Good luck and add more post info if you find out.
.
That blade is looking very nice.
Personally, I would put a few more minutes into cleaning up the ricasso if you will see it. (... yeah, I know - probably another 30 - 60 minutes....)
I wouldn't worry about the areas under the slab.
I have stripped a Bunch of my Busse and kin blades (all that I choose to keep!), but I have yet to have removed the scales. I showed you my SJTAC probably a couple of years ago when I got this:
Wouldn't you know.... out of all of the Busse kin knives I have stripped, this was the only one without Pecker-Treks!
The pits are actually pretty unique on the Desert Jack. They have a pretty interesting and decent looking orange-peel look that is very uniform. So, this is also the only Busse and kin knife that I didn't sand down the pits on the flats.
I hate the pecker treks and the streaky stretched looking marks.
The SJTAC is actually still not finished...
I have done more to it and it is pretyt close. But, I want to remove the scales to finish it properly and have been holding off because of the scales. I might add same micarta spacers to make the handle thicker while I am at it (???).Talk about MAJOR pecker Treks! The Convex shape of the SJTAC actually has CNC cutter blade treks all over both sides of the entire primary grind. Apparently, the SJTAC was machine "Cut" by CNC for the convex shape instead of flat grind like most Busse and kin blades.
You can see these types of machine marks on the AK-47's blade as well.
But, there are a lot of pits around the ricasso that I can't get to and I want to take the scales off and do it right. I have been trying to find out more myself about how to do it right. But, there isn't much info.
I am not sure what material is best to use for the tubing, stainless, brass, ????? - Where purchased tube material?
I have seen a couple of different posts showing a couple of different methods of expanding the tubes with a vice. But, my main concern is buying the right tubing so it doesn't split or crack when expanded. And where to buy the tubing.
Any more information about the Tube part of the process would be great to know. :thumbup:
Also, what about epoxy or similar material between the scales and tang?
I would think you have to be very carefull when sanding the tang to make sure and keep as perfectly flat as possible. Any round-over would most likely cause gaps between the tang and scales.
Good luck and add more post info if you find out.
.
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2005
- Messages
- 9,574
Oh man, that DJ looks GREAT! That's such a great knife...
LOL, you're still working on the SJTAC? That's been more than a year for sure --- I had a user SJTAC also, the worst grind marks ever. I finally just gave up and left them alone. Can't wait t see it when it's done - persistence always pays off.
I'll let you know what I find out about the tubing. I'm looking into the possibility of screws like Justin uses on the RD series, or possibly set screws that you grind down flush with the scales (just trying to decide if I want them exchangeable or not.)
LOL, you're still working on the SJTAC? That's been more than a year for sure --- I had a user SJTAC also, the worst grind marks ever. I finally just gave up and left them alone. Can't wait t see it when it's done - persistence always pays off.
I'll let you know what I find out about the tubing. I'm looking into the possibility of screws like Justin uses on the RD series, or possibly set screws that you grind down flush with the scales (just trying to decide if I want them exchangeable or not.)
on_the_edge
Gold Member
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2006
- Messages
- 11,830
Check out Dan Koster's website. He has a little tutorial there about how he shapes the scales so they come out symmetrical. I too thought that shaping scales would be tough, but he makes it look easy.
LOL, you're still working on the SJTAC? That's been more than a year for sure --- QUOTE]
Yeah, I would guess a year and a half since we met at least. (???)...
But, I have "Finished" quite a few other Scraps and Rats in that time. :thumbup:
I would have finished the SJTAC long before now except for the scales. I decided way back when I first started sanding on it that I wanted the scales to be thicker anyway and since I figured I would change the scales, I would just wait to finish the sanding of the blade until I am ready to remove the scales.
It has been a user for me though. And I have tinkered with it a little since you have seen it. I would say my SJTAC is my favorite knife for a knife in between the RMD and Chopweiler sized knives. :thumbup:
Keep me posted when you find out more. I look forward to it.
Good talking. (Eli - right?)
Doug
.
I was curious about Dan Koster's website, so I visited. Dan has put together a lot of good information on one website, that I have spent a long time slowly accumulating via many different forums.
While on Dan's Website, he had a link to vendors he uses at: Alpha Knife Supply
I have seen and visited some other knife supply companies including Texas Knifemaker's Supply (in Houston near Beltway 8 west and I-10 area). Ironically, I have never taken the time to check their web-site for tubing.
Here is a link to Alpha Knife Supply Stainless Tubing: http://www.alphaknifesupply.com/ss-rod.htm
Here is a Link to Texas Knifemaker's Supply's online store: http://www.texasknife.com/store/s-pages/TKS_MainframeStore.htm
Texas Knifemaker's supply lists a few different types of tubing: stainless, brass and nickel/silver - They even have micarta thong hole tubing - But, I am sure it can't be flared.
I am curious which material is best and why? I know stainless doesn't tarnish.... But, what are other pros and cons?
Also, what type of stainless?
Soupmonger said he used: "(1mm) .040" walled Sandvik stainless", but I can't figure out what type of stainless is being sold at these web-sites.
What does Jerry use? Factory rivets don't look stainless or brass, but somewhere in between (??????)
If stainless, what type of stainless? How do you know what the knife vendors are selling? I don't see info on their web-pages that indicate what it is.
I know someone tried aluminum and said it came loose. I wouldn't have used aluminum myself and I haven't seen aluminum tubing anyway.
I "eye-balled" my tube fasteners in some of my Busse, Swamp Rat and Scrap Yard knives. They all appear to have "about" a 0.18" ID and I would "estimate about" 0.25" OD. I wouldn't be able to measure unless I cut it out.
I had done some searching a while back about the tubing and had save some info to some word docs. I just did a search and noticed you (Xaman) already know about this info. :thumbup: I should have known. I have seen that you seem to be over on the Busse forum quite a bit. I don't check in there too often, just from time to time at random for me. To much to read.... I might start feeling to obligated to respond and I spend to much time responding on a couple of other forums as it is.
But, here it is again anyway for others: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4025582
Those posts indicate .25" OD tubing is used. From my eyeball measurement estimates and based on the standard sized tubings available, I would have to say they are all VERY likely to be the same 0.25" OD tubing. It makes more sense for Jerry to keep that consistent. :thumbup:
..... Looks like I might need a heavier duty vice from what I have read about flaring stainless tubing. 
.
While on Dan's Website, he had a link to vendors he uses at: Alpha Knife Supply
I have seen and visited some other knife supply companies including Texas Knifemaker's Supply (in Houston near Beltway 8 west and I-10 area). Ironically, I have never taken the time to check their web-site for tubing.
Here is a link to Alpha Knife Supply Stainless Tubing: http://www.alphaknifesupply.com/ss-rod.htm
Here is a Link to Texas Knifemaker's Supply's online store: http://www.texasknife.com/store/s-pages/TKS_MainframeStore.htm
Texas Knifemaker's supply lists a few different types of tubing: stainless, brass and nickel/silver - They even have micarta thong hole tubing - But, I am sure it can't be flared.
I am curious which material is best and why? I know stainless doesn't tarnish.... But, what are other pros and cons?
Also, what type of stainless?
Soupmonger said he used: "(1mm) .040" walled Sandvik stainless", but I can't figure out what type of stainless is being sold at these web-sites.
What does Jerry use? Factory rivets don't look stainless or brass, but somewhere in between (??????)
If stainless, what type of stainless? How do you know what the knife vendors are selling? I don't see info on their web-pages that indicate what it is.
I know someone tried aluminum and said it came loose. I wouldn't have used aluminum myself and I haven't seen aluminum tubing anyway.
I "eye-balled" my tube fasteners in some of my Busse, Swamp Rat and Scrap Yard knives. They all appear to have "about" a 0.18" ID and I would "estimate about" 0.25" OD. I wouldn't be able to measure unless I cut it out.
I had done some searching a while back about the tubing and had save some info to some word docs. I just did a search and noticed you (Xaman) already know about this info. :thumbup:
I should have known. I have seen that you seem to be over on the Busse forum quite a bit. I don't check in there too often, just from time to time at random for me. To much to read.... I might start feeling to obligated to respond and I spend to much time responding on a couple of other forums as it is. But, here it is again anyway for others: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4025582
Those posts indicate .25" OD tubing is used. From my eyeball measurement estimates and based on the standard sized tubings available, I would have to say they are all VERY likely to be the same 0.25" OD tubing. It makes more sense for Jerry to keep that consistent. :thumbup:
..... Looks like I might need a heavier duty vice from what I have read about flaring stainless tubing.
.
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2005
- Messages
- 9,574
Doug, thanks for the links above --- I didn't know where to buy the tubing ( i had just saved that link for "in case I ever got brave enough...)
I'm hoping to put some wood scales on, was thinking of going with removeable scales, but it just doesn't seem to look right on wood. I think I'm back to trying the flared hollow tubing. Now I'm hoping I don't blow it. I remember Bill Siegle selling a knife that he split all the tubing on (his first attempt at hollow tube fasteners.) If it gave him trouble, I'm likely doomed!
I'm hoping to put some wood scales on, was thinking of going with removeable scales, but it just doesn't seem to look right on wood. I think I'm back to trying the flared hollow tubing. Now I'm hoping I don't blow it. I remember Bill Siegle selling a knife that he split all the tubing on (his first attempt at hollow tube fasteners.) If it gave him trouble, I'm likely doomed!
I am fairly leering about splitting the tubing myself.
I am sure if they split they can just be redone, but it sounds like a major headache if they keep splitting. I am sure you would need to keep drilling them out. And if the hollow pins split and aren't tight, they would likely spin and be very hard to drill out = PITA.
Plus, I have been considering using a little bit of epoxy and I don't want to be "RE"-doing pins after putting epoxy on. That could be a mess! I might have to pass on epoxy (????) I am just not sure how well I can get the pins to be tight and secure with no play, gaps, wobble, etc. (???). Epoxy and clamps take the concerns out of this. But, with the factory scales, I need "flared" hollow pins....
If I do hollow flared pins, I think I might need to do some test samples in scrap wood like Wicked did (in his post in link above). But, maybe use two pieces of wood to better test how tight and secure the flared pins are - I can try prying the two pieces apart by hand to get a feel for it (?????).
I need to take some time during the week to call some of the knife supply vendors and get some feedback. I wish there were more posts and feedback here.
I don't follow the Busse forum enough to stay on top of it, but I bet Ban, Wicked, Soupmonger and some others could provide more info.
Maybe you could post over there and get some more feedback, then post a link to that thread here.
Also, if using wood and not factory original scales, I would probably go with Corby bolts/fasters or other similar hidden bolt fastener. The "Hidden Bolt Fasteners" are nice because they look like pins when finished.
See: http://www.texasknife.com/store/s-pages/TKS_RivetsPommels1.htm#600SB
They would likely be more work. But, basically, you just drill press the holes with the appropriate counter-sink inner and outter diameters (two step hole), glue, fasten bolts, clamp, let cure, and then grind off bolt heads.
These bolts aren't likely to work well with the factory slabs since the factory slabs are beveled for hollow pins to be flared into.
I probably want to use the factory scales on at least some of the projects. So, I really would like to figure this hollow tubing / flared pin thing out.
I have about 5 Busse and Swamp Rat knives I need to get finished up (including my SJTAC), but holding up on finishing because of this pin info and getting it figured out.
I guess I need to put some effort into figuring this out. I know some guys are taking off scales and putting them back on by flaring tubing. I just want to make sure when I do it that the pins are at least as secure and strong as factory original pins!
.
I am sure if they split they can just be redone, but it sounds like a major headache if they keep splitting. I am sure you would need to keep drilling them out. And if the hollow pins split and aren't tight, they would likely spin and be very hard to drill out = PITA.
Plus, I have been considering using a little bit of epoxy and I don't want to be "RE"-doing pins after putting epoxy on. That could be a mess! I might have to pass on epoxy (????) I am just not sure how well I can get the pins to be tight and secure with no play, gaps, wobble, etc. (???). Epoxy and clamps take the concerns out of this. But, with the factory scales, I need "flared" hollow pins....
If I do hollow flared pins, I think I might need to do some test samples in scrap wood like Wicked did (in his post in link above). But, maybe use two pieces of wood to better test how tight and secure the flared pins are - I can try prying the two pieces apart by hand to get a feel for it (?????).
I need to take some time during the week to call some of the knife supply vendors and get some feedback. I wish there were more posts and feedback here.
I don't follow the Busse forum enough to stay on top of it, but I bet Ban, Wicked, Soupmonger and some others could provide more info.
Maybe you could post over there and get some more feedback, then post a link to that thread here.
Also, if using wood and not factory original scales, I would probably go with Corby bolts/fasters or other similar hidden bolt fastener. The "Hidden Bolt Fasteners" are nice because they look like pins when finished.
See: http://www.texasknife.com/store/s-pages/TKS_RivetsPommels1.htm#600SB
They would likely be more work. But, basically, you just drill press the holes with the appropriate counter-sink inner and outter diameters (two step hole), glue, fasten bolts, clamp, let cure, and then grind off bolt heads.
These bolts aren't likely to work well with the factory slabs since the factory slabs are beveled for hollow pins to be flared into.
I probably want to use the factory scales on at least some of the projects. So, I really would like to figure this hollow tubing / flared pin thing out.
I have about 5 Busse and Swamp Rat knives I need to get finished up (including my SJTAC), but holding up on finishing because of this pin info and getting it figured out.
I guess I need to put some effort into figuring this out. I know some guys are taking off scales and putting them back on by flaring tubing. I just want to make sure when I do it that the pins are at least as secure and strong as factory original pins!
.
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2005
- Messages
- 9,574
Okay, I went ahead and tried some removeable screws. I'm still set on some pretty Blackwood scales for this one, but while I wait for the wood to arrive I fugured I'd see what it looked like with the old scales attached. I really like the idea of removeable scales -- even though in practice it's not very likely that I would actually ever switch them??? Before and After pics:
Things always get tricky with these projects... Of course the "flared" head screws were just a bit too small for the huge bevelled holes in the RD scales, so I had to improvise with some washers. I'm going to call and see if I can speak with someone about a larger screw (hopefully that will not change my stand-offs too.) We'll see.
Overall I'm pleased with the "look" of the screws, but I'm still not sure how "finished" they would look with wood scales -- somehow I think they match the micarta (especially well used micarta) better than they would match the wood...
Opinions? Suggestions?
Things always get tricky with these projects... Of course the "flared" head screws were just a bit too small for the huge bevelled holes in the RD scales, so I had to improvise with some washers. I'm going to call and see if I can speak with someone about a larger screw (hopefully that will not change my stand-offs too.) We'll see.
Overall I'm pleased with the "look" of the screws, but I'm still not sure how "finished" they would look with wood scales -- somehow I think they match the micarta (especially well used micarta) better than they would match the wood...
Opinions? Suggestions?
I think the screws look fine on the factory micarta handle, but I do tend to wonder how they would look on some nice wood scales.
Do the screws have some sort of threaded barrel at 0.25" dia. that keep the pins from moving and help keep the scales from shifting?
.
Do the screws have some sort of threaded barrel at 0.25" dia. that keep the pins from moving and help keep the scales from shifting?
.