Home Stabilizing Techniques?

R

Rovert

Joined
Apr 22, 2000
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Can you guys point me to an FAQ or other posts on how to stabilize wood at home, and what materials to use? I read that there was a discussion about using a microwave, or something along those lines, but damned if I can find it.

I'm asking because I have some Gaboon Ebony blocks that I machined into 1911 grips, and found there were a few voids, and the wood behaved very strangely. Under the cutter, the wood almost "powdered" rather than shaved. I'd like to seal these up as best I can before running more.

Thanks!
 
There has been a ton of discussion here from building vacuum pumps to burying in cow manure.
My old tried and true method still works for me. Cut Minwax Wood Hardener 50/50 with Acetone.

Put in a glass bowl and put the pieces in it. Weight them with a handy piece of lead or something and let them sit for a couple of weeks.

Take them out, wipe them off and let the dry overnight!
 
Peter, I am curious about the wood hardner. What is the purpose of cutting the strength by 50%. Does that make the hardner penetrate better? Also if you put it in an open top bowl, doesn't a lot of the acetone evaporate? I wonder if it would work better in a sealed container.
 
It just makes it penetrate better and yes it has to be in a sealed container.
A board or piece of Kydex over the top works fine.
 
Peter just out of curiosity have you used this method with very dense woods like ironwood or macassar ebony? I might give this a shot with some macassar and see how it goes.

Interesting idea, will definitely have to try this out.

Thanks,
Sean
 
Kydex + acetone? I sometimes use a bit of acetone on a rag to polish the edges of my Kydex sheaths... It is one of the few solvents it will dissolve in.

Here's the tech brief on what it stands up to: http://www.kydex.com/Technical/ShowArticle.asp?ArticleID=515

FWIW, I use a couple of canning jars with a venturi vacuum pump along with wood hardener. At some point I'll buy some Acryloid and try that instead.

HTH

Peter
 
Kydex on top of a bowel or jar won't be a problem. The fumes are not nearly as destructive as the liquid. Acetone is not as aggressive a solvent as MEK for plastics like Kydex and ABS.

The board or really anything to keep the stuff from evaporating will work fine.

I have not used it on dense wood. IMHO, Desert ironwood, Rosewood and like woods do not need and should not be stabilized. Again, as with most things, there is a lot of disagreement but I have rosewood handles that have been on knives for over 10 years with no cracking or checking. The proof to me is in the actual use not theory.

Bruce Evans uses the Acetone/Woodhardner method. Even after the vacuum craze started, I think he quietly stayed with the old soak em in the stuff, method.
Good luck!
 
The wood hardener treatment helps some,but is not really a stabilizer.Stabilization requires complete impregnation of the fiber with a polymer of some sort.For a surface stabilization you can use crazy glue,the cheaper/thinner kind works best.However,if you want it done right,send it to a professional.Mike Ludderman at WSSI does all mine,50 Lbs. at a time.Kenny at K&G does a good job,too.Both will do a single piece job.Dense oily woods do not stabilize well.Cocobola,and thuya are some that don't work well.Very dry ebony could be stabilized.Ebony generally works with a powder residue,as you noticed.Work slow,with sharp belts.Avoid overheating or creating stresses,as it tends to check and can chip out.Some of the best,and blackest,gaboon is old logs which have been found on the river bottoms and other places.Some are 100 years old.It takes a long time for them to dry out and become stabile (moisture content) enough to use without checking and splitting,but those logs are jet black.You may want to try African Blackwood,it works easier and is more stabile.Finally,Mike at WSSI sells blocks and scales already stabilized.His quality is good,and prices are OK.Ebony and blackwood are $14.00,Ironwood from $16-40.Stabilizing costs $12.50/Lb. for small batches (finished weight).
 
Thanks for the ideas, guys.

After reading a zillion threads, I think the consensus is that a brake bleeder from an auto parts store, and mason jars, are what I need.

The reason I asked about the microwave is because someone had mentioned using it to help dry their wood. But a while back, I stumbled on something that might work, and would appreciate everyone's thoughts.

I took some 1" pen blocks and placed them into a pint chinese soup container with some Minwax Polyurethane sealer and nuked them on medium for about 4 minutes. It didn't take even that long for the wood to begin fizzing up like crazy. When drilled, I found that the sealer penetrated all the way into the center.

So, I guess my question is that if fizz = air; and air going out = 'vacuum', then would this technique not accomplish all the things that a vacuum system would? It warms the sealer so that it thins, it heats the air in the wood from the inside out so that it escapes, and when the blocks cool, it pulls sealer back inside, no?

Curious to hear everyone's thougths on this.
 
That will work fairly well for a home treatment.However,It may P*ss the wife off to find the smell of polyurethane in her brownies .Still,it's not the same as vacuum chambers and catalyzed mono-alaphatic resins.
 
I would be pretty nervous putting this stuff in the microwave! :eek:

when you did this little trick and you drilled thru, was it dry?

I would like to hear how well this method works, and is it safe to use the mic for it? I might have to give it a try if it's safe. :)

cool idea anyway :cool:
 
Seems a little dangerous to me. I think those fumes are flamable. One little crum left un-noticed that sparks and you have the makings for a small bomb????????.
I've used those vacum food sealers to draw a vacum and they seem to work fine

Larry
 
Well, in my case the inside was still not perfectly dry, because I only waited overnight, rather than a day or two. The next time - probably by the end of today - I plan to try a few blocks of the ebony that are .5" x 5" x 3" and will let them dry until Friday when I do my next run.

Regarding the 'microwave bomb', I don't think so. They all have fans that ventilate the chamber, which would reduce any concentrated vapors. Besides, if you keep the power on low, there shouldn't be anything in there that sparks up, anyway.

There is one important thing to keep an eye on, though. Be sure that you use one of the LOW power settings, and keep watch to be sure it doesn't overcook or "overFIZZ". I started on medium, and the resulting foam threatened to overflow the container and spill into the oven. Not good.

I also don't know if this method is any better or worse than more traditional methods like a vacuum pump and mason jar. It does, however, seem to kill two birds with one stone if it achieves the same result. I've read about guys that use the microwave to dry wood, so if this dries and stabilizes at the same time, it makes it a one-step process.
 
There's also Nelsonite that you can use to stabilize with...regarded by some as much better than the minwax method. Also, MMA and resinol 90C. In any case, see my site for info on the Nelsonite...

:)

-Darren
 
I'm wondering if it would have the same affect on "dry" wood, you mentioned that you were using it to dry and stabilize at the same time...I'm thinking the way a microwave works it might not work on dry wood?

I'm going to give this a try tonight anyway, with some scraps. let it dry for a week or 2 and see what happens!

thanks for the idea! :)
 
I'm pretty sure Minwax woodhardener has Acetone in it anyway at least it smells of it.
don't blow yourself up
as said a crum in there can be the spark you don't want.
. check your homeowners insureance and see if you're covered :(
and checking your life insureance may not hurt either, no pun intended.

I do some stupid sheet at times but your taking the cake here.. :(
 
Dan Gray said:
I'm pretty sure Minwax woodhardener has Acetone in it anyway at least it smells of it.
don't blow yourself up
as said a crum in there can be the spark you don't want.
. check your homeowners insureance and see if you're covered :(
and checking your life insureance migfht not hurt either, no pun intended.

I do some stupid sheet at times but your taking the cake here.. :(
Click to expand...

well I have an old mic in the basement that I can drag outside a bit away from the house ;) can u say hit the button and run??! lol

I don't remember where I saw it but there was a trick with a mason jar and using it like a double boiler, not boiling directly with the jar but continuously pouring boiling water in a pot which the mason jar sits in, when u see the sealer starting to bubble it's hot enough, then u let it cool and as it cools it draws the sealer into the wood... not sure how well it works but I'm trying this today anyway, then saw this post :D
 
paintfool said:
well I have an old mic in the basement that I can drag outside a bit away from the house ;) can u say hit the button and run??! lol

I don't remember where I saw it but there was a trick with a mason jar and using it like a double boiler, not boiling directly with the jar but continuously pouring boiling water in a pot which the mason jar sits in, when u see the sealer starting to bubble it's hot enough, then u let it cool and as it cools it draws the sealer into the wood... not sure how well it works but I'm trying this today anyway, then saw this post :D
Click to expand...

if you used vacuum also that should work even better but remember
what flash point means..and how heat effects it. :eek:
 
Guys, let's remember to use the LOWEST SETTINGS on the microwave and observe standard ventilation precautions, too.

Keeping in mind that the low setting on a microwave is barely enough to defrost chopped spinach, I don't see anything sparking up. Then again, every microwave is different.

Also, remember there's a fan in the microwave that ventilates the chamber, so I don't understand where the notion of vapor concentrations enough to explode the thing are coming from.

Having done this a couple of times already, the warnings about 'flashpoint' and crumbs are highly overrated. Also, you absolutely must NOT leave the unit unattended. You have to keep an eye on the mixture to make sure it doesn't fizz over and spill in the appliance.

Disclaimer: What I do want to say is that you need to do this at your own risk. I'm not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, but common sense prevails. Don't blame me if you blow yourself up. :eek:
 
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