Honesuki - Critiques and a couple of questions if you will.

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Jan 10, 2015
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This is my first attempt at a Honesuki
52100 hardened to 63.
Chisel ground, right handed, hollow ground on the back with 14 inch wheel.
One piece Ironwood handle.
All hand sanded to 1000 grit

First time making this kind of handle. I'm a little mad at myself for getting the hole a tad too big. Critiques welcomed. There seems to be a lot of variation of blade geometry on this style. I picked the one I wanted to try, but would be interested in what you might think is the best geometry for this style of knife.
I haven't sharpened this yet. The bevel takes the edge down to .024 as it is. Any advise on a good edge for this one also appreciated.

Thanks

1st-Hoensuki-1.jpg


1st-Hoensuki-2.jpg


1st-Hoensuki-3.jpg


1st-Hoensuki-4.jpg
 
It looks pretty darn good except for the bend in the blade starting where the grinds begin. Frank
 
what bend in the blade single bevels always look bent by eye
as for the gap tho when you set the epoxy if your going to have a gap tint the epoxy black and clean it up jsut before it sets so it fills all the gaps and at least looks finished (guesing you could go back over it even still
 
I think it looks great! I love the profile and the handle looks comfy! You're tackling some complex grinds for sure. Putting a bolster on the front would be another way to solve the problem of the hole being too big. (probably too late for this one as it's probably epoxied)
 
Looks great overall, nice profile and grinds, and that ironwood is beautiful! Great work! :) I agree with Lloyd, I think you could still add some dyed, dark brown or black epoxy to fill that gap so it looks better and so nothing can get caught in there.

~Paul

My YT Channel Lsubslimed
... (It's been quite a while since I've posted any new vids)
 
Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. I was wondering what bend too, and was about to ask.

I am thinking about knocking the handle back off and might try fitting a bolster. Anyone done that before? Is it going to come off? :|
I could just call it done and make it a gift to someone, but if I can get the handle off without destroying it, I'd be game.
I should have posted this before I mounted it up.
 
Thanks for all the comments and suggestions. I was wondering what bend too, and was about to ask.

I am thinking about knocking the handle back off and might try fitting a bolster. Anyone done that before? Is it going to come off? :|
I could just call it done and make it a gift to someone, but if I can get the handle off without destroying it, I'd be game.
I should have posted this before I mounted it up.
I doubt you're going to be able to get that handle off without destroying it.
 
Looks great overall, nice profile and grinds, and that ironwood is beautiful! Great work! :) I agree with Lloyd, I think you could still add some dyed, dark brown or black epoxy to fill that gap so it looks better and so nothing can get caught in there.

~Paul

My YT Channel Lsubslimed
... (It's been quite a while since I've posted any new vids)

Thanks Paul. You wouldn't believe where that wood came from. We were at the Ventura swap meet a month ago and I saw this ironwood turtle.
They wanted 20 bucks, which is a lot for an ironwood piece, but not terrible. But the grain really caught my eye on this one.
I got another dolphin piece with pretty good grain as well for 10 bucks.
But man, it's a pain to cut!
 
Looks pretty good!

For the slot gap problem, make a front bolster next time.
It can be a thin piece of brass or nickel, or a piece of wood. Most Japanese kitchen knife handles have a slice of dark wood ( or buffalo horn) as the bolster. African Blackwood is my WOC ( wood of choice) for this. While it can be an inch thick, thinner works just as well.



Cut rectangular 1/4" thick slices (about 1X1.25" is good for most knives) , with the grain, and sand them flat and smooth on both sides with 120 grit( it is simplest to cut a bunch and have them on hand for handle projects). Sand one side to the final grit and polish. Mark and cut the slot out with a jewelers saw. Work it on and off the tang until it is a snug fit where you want it to be on the blade. Make sure it is sitting at 90° to the tang and not cocked. I like having two small shoulders on the tang for the bolster to rest on, but it can just be a force fit against the taper of the tang.

Make the hole in the main handle so the handle slides on the tang and seats against the bolster comfortably. It should not be a tight fit, but it shouldn't be sloppy, ether. Make sure the end fits flush against the bolster.

At glue-up for the handle, mix the slow cure epoxy and tint it black ( 24 hour cure is best). Put a tiny bit on the tang about 1" back from where the bolster will sit and slide the bolster on. It will push the epoxy in front of it and also seal the bolster seam. Wipe off any excess with denatured alcohol at the front and check for a good seal.
Fill the hole in the handle with sufficient resin, and slowly slide the tang in. Run it up to the bolster, wipe off the squeeze-out with denatured alcohol and check the fit. If all looks good, clamp in a handle jig. Wipe off again and double check alignment of the bolster and handle as well as that the blade is straight in the handle. Let cure for 24 hours.

After curing the epoxy for at least 24 hours, grind the bolster flush with the handle and finish shaping the handle.





Note:
You probably have read to use acetone for cleaning up epoxy. I read that, used it, and recommended it for years. Some more recent discussion with epoxy manufacturers has brought to light that denatured alcohol is far better for removing uncured epoxy. It is also safer to breathe, easier on the skin, and cheaper. Cured epoxy can be rubbed away with acetone if you miss some.


TIP 1:
If using a thicker bolster block, say 1", drill/mill/rout the back side out to within 1/4" of the front. Use a 3/16" or 1/4" bit/burr. This gives room for the tang to be fitted snugly in the last 1/4" as above. It will make fit-up of the handle to the bolster easier.

TIP 2:
Making a handle jig is almost essential if you want good tight handle assembly. It is really simple, and can be made for a few dollars. It consists of three parts:
1) A support for the blade tip, guard, or front of the handle ( depending on knife type).
2) The adjustable rails.
3) The pressure block for the butt.

Start with the main support block. It will usually be one of two types. A block with a small hole drilled in it, or a block with a slot in it. You want to make at least one of each, and may end up with several sizes of the slotted blocks. I suggest cutting out eight blocks and having the extras on hand for custom blocks when needed (two will be for the butt blocks).
Cut 6" long blocks from 1X3"poplar or pine. Mark the centerline on each block. Using an "H" or .266" bit, drill all the blocks with three holes - 1" in from each end, and one dead center. Slot one block in the center with a 1/4" wide slot about 1.5" long. The slot should be perpendicular to the centerline you drew, and the lines should bisect each other. This should allow use on most blades to go through the slot. You can slot the extra blocks as needed for specific knives that you make often for a closer fit.

The two butt blocks are: one left as-is with the center hole, and one with a 2"X2" piece of rubber glued in the center. Any piece of rubber will work, but 1/2-3/4" thick dense foam like is used on a Kydex press is the perfect type. Leather will work, too. What you are making is a padded non slip surface for the handle butt. The one with the plain hole will be used in making knives with a through tang and some other knives with a centered handle or pommel. Enlarge or shape the hole as needed to fit the pommel end, or tang. Butt blocks can have different shapes or pads on both sides and can be flipped over to use the best one.

The rails are two pieces of 1/4" thread-all rod. A 36" piece cut in half gives a jig that works for most knives.
While 1/4" wing nuts will work, two 14-20 hand wheels/knob from True Value, Woodcraft, Rockler, etc. will work much better.
At the support block end, attach the block with a 1/4-20 nut and fender washer on each side. Snug them down and that end is done.
Slip on an end block and slide it down. Put on two fender washers and then the hand wheels. The jig is ready to use.

To use the jig - Caution - always do a dry-fit to check that everything is right -
Place knife tip in the support block hole, or place blade in slot, depending on the knife and handle type. If needed, make shim blocks to adjust for angled guards or special blades. Slide the butt block against the handle butt and run the wheels down to it. The block with the rubber pad is the most adjustable, so it gets the most use. Move the handle left/right/up/down as needed until the blade/handle/guard/pommel/etc. all are aligned. If it won't match up, take off and check that all surfaces fit properly. In the dry fit you will find the cracks and misalignments that seem to be missed when covered with resin, and show up badly after all is cleaned up and sanded. Remove the handle, put epoxy in and on all the appropriate parts, and re-assemble as before. Wipe off excess resin and carefully tighten the wheels. It should only be snug, not a forced fit. Wipe off again, check, rotate and look at it from every direction, set it down, and check again in 10 minutes. Repeat as needed until it is dead right...then set aside to cute in an upright position. I like to clamp he blade or jig in a padded vise so I can stand back and look at the handle and blade alignment from all sides.
 
Cool design, and I like the wood. I don't know much about this style of knife, but isn't .024 a bit thick for a kitchen knife?
 
Agreed, Shane. I take them to .024" range before HT and down to .005" before sharpening.
 
I really like the knife. Nice job! If you heat the knife you can get the handle off. Take a scrap piece of ironwood to see how the heat will affect it. You may have to sand it back down when done. .024" also sounds a little thick but I haven't done any chisel grinds. Nice work!
 
Stacy, thanks for the great write-up. Much of this is going to go into my "how-to" guide for my own knife-making.
 
I really like the knife. Nice job! If you heat the knife you can get the handle off. Take a scrap piece of ironwood to see how the heat will affect it. You may have to sand it back down when done. .024" also sounds a little thick but I haven't done any chisel grinds. Nice work!

Thanks Matt. So how hot? Maybe in an oven to 150 degrees or so? Hot water maybe? I'm not sure what temp might affect the blade composition. ?

It is thick, and I left it thick because I wasn't sure on this style.
There is so much variation on blade geometry on what folks are calling a honesuki.
Because it's a boning knife and used to cut cartilage, I was thinking it should not be thin and flimsy like a vegetable knife.
I was also debating doing a double bevel to retain thickness further down the edge, but still coming out fairly thin at the edge.
I am leaning toward just taking the existing edge down to a fairly think bevel. This would make the actual cutting edge fairly wide and easy to resharpen consistently.

All that said, I am not sure and would really appreciate input from others who make and / or use this style for it's intended purpose.
 
Also, I have another one ready to clean up and mount, so I might just chalk this one up to a lesson and gift it out.
I was thinking I would sell it, but I'm just not proud enough of it to do that.
 
i wodl not mess with the handle as i know i have to destroy them to get mine off (tried that boiluing water thing and even torch on the spine to heat the tang )
bolster the next one and jsut use a bit of the extra epoxy seal this knife and your all good
you shoudl see the fit and finish on most Asian knives (barring high end stuff) its quite often a glob of epoxy on the front of the handle and they are called good
 
As long as you don't heat it more that your temper you should be fine. I think 250-300 will loosen the epoxy and shouldn't hurt the temper although it may hurt the handle. You can just do as Lloyd suggested and fill it in. That will keep it sanitary.
 
Over all very nice looking Honesuki and handle.

I agree that a little fill in work with some black dyed G-Flex would make it look better and more importantly seal out an area where food can get lodged.

I'm not an expert on the tradition Japanese styles. From what I've read and seen there can be a LOT of variation in the patterns. Island to Island and maker to maker.

How about you take it for a test drive on some meats and see how it performs? Make notes and adjust on the next on.

Our kitchen is stocked with a few of my ones with cosmetic O'h S&%* knives. :)
Build, Test, analyze and build another.
 
Great advice Laurence. I will call this one my oh *#!% knife and test it out.
That is interesting info on the Japanese styles too. I never thought about it that way.
Not that I am striving for an absolutely perfect traditional knife, but I like thinking about why they are the way they are.
 
i wodl not mess with the handle as i know i have to destroy them to get mine off (tried that boiluing water thing and even torch on the spine to heat the tang )
bolster the next one and jsut use a bit of the extra epoxy seal this knife and your all good
you shoudl see the fit and finish on most Asian knives (barring high end stuff) its quite often a glob of epoxy on the front of the handle and they are called good

Thanks Butch. Again, interesting info on the Japanese finish. They seem like a pretty practical bunch, but I know they can take fit and finish to extremes in many ways. It's probably in the food prep more than the knives. Their attention to detail there is just amazing.
 
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