Hopefully The New Enforced MAP Price Will Prevent This!

[MaxFisher]

Second, is I've had two knives I've had to send into BM, a 810 and a 760, both for blade retention issues, a well documented problem with the 760, neither were fixed and were returned no better than they left. If you can't or won't fix it, at least say so, save me the hassle and cost of returning it. So while others have had good luck with their customer service, I see no point in sending in another knife only to have it returned the same way it went in. I do like that they will send free screws/clips at request.

I have also had a knife returned to me without being fixed. I tried to be ok with it, because the knife had been discontinued for 5+ years and they sent a note along stating that they didn't have the parts to fix it anymore. While that is completely understandable, I sent an email in to their customer service department before sending the knife asking if they would be able to do anything for me since the knife was long discontinued. I got a reply back asking me to send the knife in for them to fix it. I was excited that I was going to be able to get my discontinued knife fixed until I got the actual knife back in the mail. Also, they couldn't fix the knife, but simply sent it back to me with a note saying as much. There was no attempt made by BM to offer me any sort of replacement for my broken knife. Just a note telling me, "tough poopy."

Around that same time, I sent a full sized Griptilian in for lifesharp service. When that knife came back to me it was razor sharp. However, when I sent the knife in it opened extremely smoothly with rock solid lock-up and absolutely no side-to-side play. When I got the knife back, the action was still smooth but there was a large amount of side-to-side play. I tried adjusting the pivot to get rid of the blade play, but if I got the pivot tight enough to remove the play then it was very difficult to open. To achieve the opening action it had when I sent it in, I had to live with a tiny bit of side-to-side play. Just not the kind of service I was expecting when I sent it in to them.

 

[SaintlyBrees]

I have also had a knife returned to me without being fixed. I tried to be ok with it, because the knife had been discontinued for 5+ years and they sent a note along stating that they didn't have the parts to fix it anymore. While that is completely understandable,...

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you here. When a company provides a limited lifetime warranty, they have a responsibility to you for the life of that knife within the words used to define what is "limited". What benchmade says (in part):

Lifetime Warranty

Each new knife is packaged with written documentation of the Benchmade Warranty. Benchmade Knife Company, Inc. warrants to the original owner that the knife will be free from defects in materials and workmanship. Benchmade will without charge, repair or replace at our (Benchmade's) option, any knife returned for Warranty work and found to be defective by Benchmade.

There is no exception for a discontinued knife. What BM is doing is taking advantage of the customer by begging off for that reason, but clearly in their text they reference "any knife" not "any knife still in production". This leaves BM with the choice of keeping parts or replacing the knife with one of similar style.

A few months ago, I sent a knife back to another knife company famous for its Lifetime Warranty. Even though the knife was purchased in the early '80s, they fixed it and gave it a free spa treatment. That is how a Lifetime Warranty is supposed to be handled. If BM wishes to avoid repairs/replacements on discontinued models, then they MUST include wordage to that effect in their warranty. They do not.

The more I hear about these guys, the less customer centric they seem to be. Personally, I don't think they care much at all about the customer and are only interested in providing a perception that will keep people buying the product ("Do NOT look behind the green curtain!").

JMO.

Edit:
To make my point while providing a little more detail, here is BM's own words on what is not covered. Note the absence of words about discontinued models (this is taken from the BM web site):

WHAT IS NOT COVERED

This Warranty does not cover normal wear, resharpening of the blade, damage caused by neglect, misuse or the failure to perform normal or necessary maintenance, disassembly of any knife by any person other than Benchmade’s Warranty department, or shipping costs for returned knives.

Do not use your new knife as a screwdriver, prybar, chisel or punch. Do not throw your knife or use it for any purpose other than cutting. Do not disassemble your knife. Do not sharpen your knife on a power grinding wheel. Any of these acts will void your Warranty. MINIMUM CHARGE TO REASSEMBLE A KNIFE WHEN THE WARRANTY HAS BEEN VOIDED IS $20 PLUS PARTS.

Repair or replacement as provided under this Warranty is the exclusive remedy of the consumer. Benchmade shall not be liable for any incidental, reliance, or consequential damages or breach of implied Warranty on this product, including any damage to person or property. Benchmade’s liability under any circumstances is limited to the purchase price. Some states do not allow exclusion or limitation of incidental or consequential damages, so the above limitations or exclusions may not apply to you. This Warranty gives you specific legal rights, and you may also have other rights which vary from state to state.

This knife has only one use, as a cutting tool. Benchmade’s knives carry no warranty except as expressly contained herein. Benchmade disclaims all warranties of merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose other than for use as a cutting tool. There are no warranties which extend beyond the description contained herein. Please review the Warranty information and proper knife care instructions provided with each knife.

 

[SOLEIL]

This MAP is very disappointing. I finally got to the point where Benchmade prices were a reasonable purchase for me. Unfortunately they stepped past that with the MAP. I do have a 810-1401 coming because I love the design and the steel. However due to the MAP this will be the last Benchmade I will be buying for a long time. Fortunately there are alternatives out there at good prices and great warranty's.

 

[jkarp_53]

Happy New Year y'all. MAP is one thing. Everything seems to cost more, especially where I live. If we can't afford something we do without or find an alternative. With knife collecting there are networks within; and as a result there are deals to be had without having to pay the asking price. My wife points out that for some things she won't even go into that store unless they have 40 to 60% off. But the main problem so many of are having, regularly, seems to be in how and what condition these Benchmade knives come to us in, and right out of the box.

I was talking to an old friend about this QC (or lack of Benchmade QC thing), and in comparing notes we know many that have stopped buying the product altogether as a result. In actual and real terms, the numbers of discontented are growing larger by the week, it seems.

I have, over the years, read carefully the warranty statement provided above. And yes, I can go into my safe and pull out a few classics that have no faults in build quality. But over this last couple of years, nearly every one of my hard-earned purchases came out of the box with some kind of flaw. Most notable were the three 2012 Forum knives that had serious issues each. These were sent up, and were repaired to my satisfaction. But the problem I have is I now expect to find off-centered and uneven blade grinds when I buy one of these as delivered from the factory. That's not right, and at some point, it has got to start hurting the company's profits. What that does is blunt my enthusiasm, and makes me look for other places to satisfy my craving.

I find it kind of sad, and yet still hope someone up there will turn this around. It Is a new year after all.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you here. When a company provides a limited lifetime warranty, they have a responsibility to you for the life of that knife within the words used to define what is "limited". What benchmade says (in part):



There is no exception for a discontinued knife. What BM is doing is taking advantage of the customer by begging off for that reason, but clearly in their text they reference "any knife" not "any knife still in production". This leaves BM with the choice of keeping parts or replacing the knife with one of similar style.

A few months ago, I sent a knife back to another knife company famous for its Lifetime Warranty. Even though the knife was purchased in the early '80s, they fixed it and gave it a free spa treatment. That is how a Lifetime Warranty is supposed to be handled. If BM wishes to avoid repairs/replacements on discontinued models, then they MUST include wordage to that effect in their warranty. They do not.

The more I hear about these guys, the less customer centric they seem to be. Personally, I don't think they care much at all about the customer and are only interested in providing a perception that will keep people buying the product ("Do NOT look behind the green curtain!").

JMO.

Edit:
To make my point while providing a little more detail, here is BM's own words on what is not covered. Note the absence of words about discontinued models (this is taken from the BM web site):

 

[Belly]

I too have sent knives back to Benchmade and they have come back the same. It got to the point where the last time I sent one back, I told them to keep it if they could not fix it. They got it close enough for me, but I too now have to consider that when buying a new knife. It all goes back to me having to buy it in person and therefore I usually have to pay full price. Instead of buying 3 or 4 a year, I get 1. With full msrp/map being universal, I will get less than before.

Like I said before though, I still like their knives. I will just save my money and get knives from other companies instead since I know their is better quality control for the price.

For myself, if Benchmade wants to charge more, they will have to improve their quality.

However, as I said earlier, I highly doubt their new policy will affect the big picture. I think most people are not as picky as myself.

 

[jkarp_53]

I have also had a knife returned to me without being fixed. I tried to be ok with it, because the knife had been discontinued for 5+ years and they sent a note along stating that they didn't have the parts to fix it anymore. While that is completely understandable, I sent an email in to their customer service department before sending the knife asking if they would be able to do anything for me since the knife was long discontinued. I got a reply back asking me to send the knife in for them to fix it. I was excited that I was going to be able to get my discontinued knife fixed until I got the actual knife back in the mail. Also, they couldn't fix the knife, but simply sent it back to me with a note saying as much. There was no attempt made by BM to offer me any sort of replacement for my broken knife. Just a note telling me, "tough poopy."

Around that same time, I sent a full sized Griptilian in for lifesharp service. When that knife came back to me it was razor sharp. However, when I sent the knife in it opened extremely smoothly with rock solid lock-up and absolutely no side-to-side play. When I got the knife back, the action was still smooth but there was a large amount of side-to-side play. I tried adjusting the pivot to get rid of the blade play, but if I got the pivot tight enough to remove the play then it was very difficult to open. To achieve the opening action it had when I sent it in, I had to live with a tiny bit of side-to-side play. Just not the kind of service I was expecting when I sent it in to them.

Max's example above is a perfect example of what I mean. Max: thanks for writing this. It's like saying it's not their problem, and must be something we're doing wrong. This does not instill confidence.

 

[YoYojunkie]

I looked at the 3 benchmade's in my possession and find faults in each poor grinds sloppy blade play and poor scale fit on the liners I'm thinking it's time to find a new maker as cash isn't so easy to come by and now I'll have to pay more for the flaws

 

[harris2]

It will be interesting to see what condition my recently ordered 810-1401 will arrive in. It is supposed to be delivered Saturday. One would think an "Exclusive" or "Limited Edition" would receive at least a quality final inspection for any defects, e.g., uneven edge grinds, off-centered blade, etc. Unfortunately, I have my doubts because the "Limited Edition" 707-1201 Sequel that I received several weeks ago had an edge grind that was twice as high on one side as the other, very disappointing. If the 810-1401 has any of those kind of defects it will be the last Benchmade I buy, unless a really spectacular, can't live without model is released.

 

[crom]

All of the Benchmades I've handled recently from the SHOT show Griptillian down to the humble 440c mini presidio Ultra have all been impressive in terms of fit and finish. All production companies suffer from the same issues from time to time. I've lost count of the ZT problem threads and the Spyderco complaints. If I want to buy a BM I will look here on the exchange. I am not happy about the price increase either but I don't collect them like baseball cards either.

 

[SOLEIL]

I like Benchmade but only have 6 of them. Out of those six only two came with equal blade grinds. The two that did were old new stock 710s. Unfortunately uneven blade grinds are not uncommon from all of the big name production knife makers. And honestly that doesn't bother me too much. I used to reprofile almost every knife upon arrival. In the past few years I have just used the factory edge, in most cases sharp and functional, until they needed touch up or resharpened. At that point they get reprofiled, angle depending on primary use and steel type. I have been using paper wheels and belt sanders for a long time so the work is usually quick and easy. But I fully understand the frustration for someone who does not have power tools, especially at the current prices. I have been fortunate to not have had F&F or function issues to date. Even with that being said I will still be reluctant to pay the Benchmade MAP with so many high quality alternatives being available.

 

[JNewell]

I have to amicably and respectfully disagree. If the knife is discontinued, and the parts have run out, the "replace" concept in the warranty statement applies, and fairly so. Would I be disappointed? Yes, possibly horribly. But at the end of the day, that's life. There's no obligation, legally or morally, to maintain parts for discontinued products indefinitely.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you here. When a company provides a limited lifetime warranty, they have a responsibility to you for the life of that knife within the words used to define what is "limited". What benchmade says (in part):



There is no exception for a discontinued knife. What BM is doing is taking advantage of the customer by begging off for that reason, but clearly in their text they reference "any knife" not "any knife still in production". This leaves BM with the choice of keeping parts or replacing the knife with one of similar style.

A few months ago, I sent a knife back to another knife company famous for its Lifetime Warranty. Even though the knife was purchased in the early '80s, they fixed it and gave it a free spa treatment. That is how a Lifetime Warranty is supposed to be handled. If BM wishes to avoid repairs/replacements on discontinued models, then they MUST include wordage to that effect in their warranty. They do not.

The more I hear about these guys, the less customer centric they seem to be. Personally, I don't think they care much at all about the customer and are only interested in providing a perception that will keep people buying the product ("Do NOT look behind the green curtain!").

JMO.

Edit:
To make my point while providing a little more detail, here is BM's own words on what is not covered. Note the absence of words about discontinued models (this is taken from the BM web site):

 

[JNewell]

I have, over the years, read carefully the warranty statement provided above. And yes, I can go into my safe and pull out a few classics that have no faults in build quality. But over this last couple of years, nearly every one of my hard-earned purchases came out of the box with some kind of flaw. Most notable were the three 2012 Forum knives that had serious issues each. These were sent up, and were repaired to my satisfaction. But the problem I have is I now expect to find off-centered and uneven blade grinds when I buy one of these as delivered from the factory. That's not right, and at some point, it has got to start hurting the company's profits. What that does is blunt my enthusiasm, and makes me look for other places to satisfy my craving.

I find it kind of sad, and yet still hope someone up there will turn this around. It Is a new year after all.

Wow. I have two of the 2012 Forum Rifts and they are close to Gold Class, as were the two Shot Show Grips I bought. I'm sorry you had different experiences. I will say that my recent Ares has a slightly off-center blade, and that this is not a fixable issue - blade is probably warped, but I haven't put it on a machinist's straight edge to verify.

 

[SaintlyBrees]

I have to amicably and respectfully disagree. If the knife is discontinued, and the parts have run out, the "replace" concept in the warranty statement applies, and fairly so. Would I be disappointed? Yes, possibly horribly. But at the end of the day, that's life. There's no obligation, legally or morally, to maintain parts for discontinued products indefinitely.

Actually, we don't disagree here. At least, I don't think we do. They do indeed have the option to repair or replace and I noted that:

This leaves BM with the choice of keeping parts or replacing the knife with one of similar style...If BM wishes to avoid repairs/replacements on discontinued models, then they MUST include wordage to that effect in their warranty. They do not.

It is clearly their call. But in the case that Max relates (unless I misunderstood his point) they offered to do nothing and they are obligated to repair or replace. In fact, Max states:

There was no attempt made by BM to offer me any sort of replacement for my broken knife. Just a note telling me, "tough poopy."

So, yep, you're right. They can opt to replace it. They didn't and therein lies the issue. They seem to think (at least in this case) that if the knife is discontinued they don't have to do anything for the customer. That is not correct. They still have obligations.

 

[SOLEIL]

Yes, they are not obligated to hold parts for discontinued knives, but it would make customers happy. I have needed replacement parts for some of the discontinued Kershaw products. I think their A100 Multitool has been discontinued for a decade but they still had parts to send me. They actually sent above and beyond what I asked for. This tells me that they may have overproduced the product and were trying to get rid of some inventory. It is a money thing as to how much they will produce and how long they will tie up floor space for obsolete materials. By almost all current standards of business this is probably a shorter time than the consumer would like to see. But it is a needed practice to best utilize their space to make room for new products and ultimately saving money by not keeping old items in inventory. On the good side if your knife outlasts the available repair stock it proves that you have purchased a good product.

 

[miltmaldo]

Before benchmade decided to be part of Blade Forum I had posted that benchmade did not wanted to be part of this forum because they did not want to hear how bad there QC . I hope that they are not hearing this but listening and paying attention MAP price for the 943 $170 check the grind on mine . Looks like a chisel grind angle .

Now it looks like benchmade hire there grinder out of high school and when they get the experience they go right around the coner and work for kershaw . This is how it's done benchmade learn .

 

[abms1]

Well i won't be buying that BM 940 that was in my sights. Thanks for making my decision easy Benchmade. What a joke.

 

[ToddM]

To me I don't expect them to carry replacement parts forever, however if it's a warranty issue and they don't have parts, then they should offer a current production model(s) to replace the defective knife with instead of returning it saying they don't have parts to fix it. Now perhaps that original owner would not like that option, or they'd rather live with whatever the issue is and keep the original knife, but again to me the offer should be made to replace it with a current model(s) of equal or greater value.

As I read the warranty it seems pretty clear, Benchmade will either repair, or replace, I see nothing that says if they don't have parts anymore the warranty is no longer applicable.

 

[crom]

I'm looking at that 943 and trying to see what you are seeing. So, are you talking about the edge or the grind?
Edit: just looked at pics of 943's and they are all ground like that. The final edge and grind are two separate things. If that edge isn't thin enough you can fix it with a stone and about 15 minutes of your time. I personally don't see the edge as a QC issue unless it's really asymmetrical or wavy etc. I've had my fair share of Kershaws come with thick edges.

 

[JNewell]

Sorry, reading issues at my end, I guess!

Actually, we don't disagree here. At least, I don't think we do. They do indeed have the option to repair or replace and I noted that:


It is clearly their call. But in the case that Max relates (unless I misunderstood his point) they offered to do nothing and they are obligated to repair or replace. In fact, Max states:



So, yep, you're right. They can opt to replace it. They didn't and therein lies the issue. They seem to think (at least in this case) that if the knife is discontinued they don't have to do anything for the customer. That is not correct. They still have obligations.

 

[SaintlyBrees]

Sorry, reading issues at my end, I guess!

:thumbup: