Hossom CPM3V Machete

Jerry,

You be sure and let me know when you get it worked out, because I want one.

I am looking for a tactical machete, one to carry hiking for trail clearing, and basic camp woodcraft such as cutting small branches to build an emergency shelter. I also want it to work as an effective defensive tool. The size and layout of the one pictured looks just right to me. I can't imagine wanting to go thinner than 1/8" on stock. With the swedge, I should think that even 5/64 should work well for weight. Isn't Will's complaint about cutting more a matter of edge shape than stock thickness?

Cheers!
 
Cliff--

That blade profile of Phil's you described is one I would like very much to try, also.

I do think it likely that whatever gains are found in penetration on light material will be balanced off with a compromise of the non-binding/splitting capability this Hossom blade has--and I really like that quality, just as it is. I too have other machetes, including Barteaux's and Ontarios that have been thinned out as you describe, and they perform very well on the light stuff. But I do NOT have ANYTHING else that will do what this Hossom will do. So my interest in further improvement is alive and well, but I don't want to get to a point (by changing this blade) where I have to say, "Well, I liked it better the way it was."

That said, I'm definitely on the edge of my seat with anticipation for Jerry's next production.

--Will
 
Will :

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I do think it likely that whatever gains are found in penetration on light material will be balanced off with a compromise of the non-binding/splitting capability</font>
Click to expand...

Yes, have you considered a Smatchet type deal ground on top and bottom with two different profiles? You would have to make a vastly different shaped handle though unless you wanted to make it reversable.

-Cliff
 
Cliff--

I like the smatchet idea, and hadn't thought about something with a specialized top edge. Interesting...the handle ergonomics/angle-to-blade formula would be tricky to work out, no?

Steve -- I know your comment was only informational in nature, but just to be clear, I have NO COMPLAINT about El Macho. I think it is a specialty tool without peer--just not optimal for conventional machete applications.

--W
 
Steve, edge shape and stock thickness are interrelated. in the case of this grind, the angles used in shaping the parabola are determined by the distance from the steel's flat surface to the final edge, in both dimensions.

It's my belief that CPM-3V will support a thinner blade and therefore a finer composite angle approaching the edge. The strength of the edge really comes down to the thickness of the steel at about 1/8" above the edge, as Cliff has suggested. That said, CPM-3V reduces that requisite thickness to levels untenable by other steels used in knifemaking, IMHO. That's what gives me confidence in going to thinner stock and therefore a more finely shaped edge, while still achieving the hardwood cutting effiency Will has noted. Within the limits of the hollow grind, my experience with swords in cutting hardwood sapplings confirms this.

It should be noted that a lot of the cutting efficiency of this type blade comes from advantages of leverage afforded by the handle. In this respect too, Will's use of gloves likely adds to cutting efficiency by removing some of the discomfort experienced while accelerating the blade to its impact speed. Ergonomics certainly contribute to the efficiency of the cut.

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Jerry Hossom
www.hossom.com
 
.........huh????
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Jerry, great looking blade! I have a couple of questions on the 3-V. I have so far been unimpressed with the ability of 3-V to take edge impacts. The stuff is tougher than hell but as an example I took a 3-V short sword at Rc 58 and took the head off a deer with one big swipe and where the edge inpacted the vertabre there is quite a lot of damage. Then yesterday I took the head off another deer, this one frozen with an ATS-34 short sword of very similar grinds and edge thickneses with no damage that I could see hitting what I consider was the same amount of bone. Have you experianced anything like this?

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www.simonichknives.com
 
Rob, I have nothing but praise for 3V, but I think there is a fine line on edge geometry that decides how any steel will handle impact.

Crucible claims 3V is pretty touchy with heat treating, and was pushing users towards a couple heat treaters they approved of. Since I don't do it, I can't judge what those problems might be.

There might be an explanation, but it's a longshot. 3V has a very insidious rusting process when it happens. It begins in very small micro-pits in the steel, and proceeds for some time before it even becomes visible. When you finally can see it (tiny spots), there are already deep pits in the steel. If that happened on the edge (most likely spot for rust to develop), it might have been weakened before you made your cut. That's one reason I polish edges as much as I can, even with 3V.

All that said, I have never been disappointed with ATS-34 with respect to impact resistance. A customer has repeatedly tested one of my ATS-34 bowies against bone and it has just never had a problem, not even a nick. Still, an ATS-34 blade is certainly more likely to snap if it gets excessive lateral stress, but I think it handles edge impact surprisingly well.

The same customer wrote this on a 3V sword.

http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/002184.html



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Jerry Hossom
www.hossom.com
 
Gerry,
Great looking Machete!
Rob,
With the non frozen deer..... How long did ya chase him before you got within blade range of him??
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Neil

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Talonite......Stellite
Knives in STOCK!! I just updated my website, PLEASE take a look :)


blackwoodknives.com
 
Neil, I chased it however long it takes a .50 cal ball out of a 36" muzzleloader barrel behind 100 grains of FF Black Powder to go about 75 yards! In other words, not long!
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Jerry, certainly not saying anything against 3-V, and I totally agree that it is much tougher than ATS in lateral bending. It is some tough stuff! As far as the heat treatment, I have used several profiles from exactly following Crucibles instructions to using a couple well reguarded makers instructions to the letter. I still have testing to do on the last blade I heat treated and plan on sending one to Paul Bos for comparisons. Its just AT THIS TIME (my testing is incomplete) I am not impressed with 3-V, but like A-2 better. Please note, my personal testing is incomplete and I am not saying 3-V isnt what you say it is, I am just not done with my testing! And I must say I was very surprised when I seen the chipping and edge bending that occured in the head lopping. (very unscientific I know, but feild testing is much more important to me) And Jerry, did I tell you I wasnt done testing yet?
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www.simonichknives.com
 
well reguarded....going back and guarding the well again........you probably meant well regarded.......right??!!
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And Rob, when you finish your testing we might just find that A2 is better suited to your knives and CPM-3V better for mine.
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I meant no offense on the heat treating remark. It was just an observation offered by Crucible.

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Jerry Hossom
www.hossom.com
 
Jerry great looking knife. !!!

Rob
My tests are the same as yours .
I tested 6 blades different hardness's in 3v.

The impact on the edge was weak imho. It just seemed that for the high price of 3v I get better results with 52100 and 1084 diff tempered at a lower price. Also the D2 was much tougher and more stain resistant.

I grind um thin so that may be the difference. IF the edge is convex and thick it would be stronger. 3v did fine on wood and rope.
BUT on a soft nail or any metal (zippers ect)it failed. Tip twisting it fail bad..(thin tip)

On 52100 the thin tips flexed and flexed back.
The 3v tips bend and stayed bent.


Maybe Jerry has a secret forumula.
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Web Site At www.darrelralph.com
Happy Holidays!

[This message has been edited by Darrel Ralph (edited 12-08-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Darrel Ralph (edited 12-08-2000).]
 
Maybe so...

So far 3V blades have repeatedly banged on mild steel pipe(shaving off pieces), bone, rock maple, ratan, bamboo, sword (unknown steel), etc. without a single failure or even meaningful dulling. Further, the formulation and test data from Crucible argues that this steel has greater impact resistant (2x according to the Charpy test) than A2.

I guess you'd have to conclude that edge geometry is the major variable. My edges are not thin, nor do I think they should be on blades that are intended for high impact applications. Still in the Espada test, for testing purposes I intentionally put a very fine shaving edge on part of that blade and after cutting through 3-1/2" of mature animal bone it revealed only a slight 1/16" flattening on the edge at the point of contact, no fractures or chips even after repeated cuts. But then I've never had an ATS-34 blade chip or fracture in similar tests.

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Jerry Hossom
www.hossom.com
 
A cutting sword is not simply a long knife, and a cutting sword's edge cannot be ground in the same manner as a knife's. Most experienced swordmakers and swordsmen agree that proper edge geometry is much more critical for a cutting sword than for a knife.

A sword is essentially a flying wedge. During a sword swing, tremendous momentum is generated which in turn produces a huge impact force concentrated at one tiny spot along blade at the point of impact. A convex edge grind has been proven time and again to be optimal on battlefields and in cutting tests all over the world.

I myself have done everything short of cutting a car apart with Jerry's CPM-3V blades- up to and including edge, flat, and spine blocks against the full power swings of other sword blades such as a Del Tin Chromium Vanadium steel rapier and various Kris Cutlery 5160 blades, with no chipping of the edge whatsoever(which is more than I can say for my other poor blades, BTW). In addition, the ability of 3V to withstand lateral stress without breaking or taking a set provides a tremendous measure of safety in a combat worthy sword. If you add to all this the fact that this level of performance can be achieved in 3V with significantly thinner stock than with A-2, etc, thus creating a sword that is lighter and therefore faster and more maneuverable in the hand, IMO you have a very strong argument for choosing 3V for cutting or combat worthy sword applications.

Mario

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Gaucho

Tuvo muy mala suerte...se callo en mi cuchillo.


 
Have to agree that saber grinds are made for swords. I would love to see a vidieo of your tests on the 3v.
For thin smaller fighters 4-10 inch I just feel there several better performing steels. I like um light and fast.

As for the impact resitance on 3v , It may be great for a sword but for thin tips it bends at 62rc - 56 rc. It takes a set at that point.

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Web Site At www.darrelralph.com
Happy Holidays!
 
Darrel, I really don't think you meant to pass judgement on CPM-3V as not being a useful blade steel did you? I too subscribe to light and fast blades, and have found that 3V works well in those I make.

BTW, all my blades are hollow ground, not saber ground. Only the edge is convex.

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Jerry Hossom
www.hossom.com

[This message has been edited by GaKnife (edited 12-08-2000).]
 
Jerry, I just looked again at the photo at the begining of this thread, is this blade hollow ground?

Tom, Ill check my grammer and spellin when you start using puncuation and capitol letters! ha ha ha
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[This message has been edited by Rob Simonich (edited 12-08-2000).]
 
Jerry
I feel 3v in my test are far different than what I am reading here. Thats all.

I like other steel much more for there performance.

Convex and saber at the edge are close eh?


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Web Site At www.darrelralph.com
Happy Holidays!
 
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