How close to "full" hardness from quench w/ canola and 1084?

[lazlo]

She said "There are four subjects that should be avoided in polite conversation. Don't discuss your politics, religion, income or quenching medium preferences, keep these subjects private, for they cause angst and turmoil wherever discussed."

LOL!

In the first 10 minutes of Kevin's metallurgy DVD, someone in the crowd asks about canola oil. Kevin pauses, and says that he's reluctant to answer, because in his decades studying and teaching metallurgy, the one topic that has caused more controvery and hard feelings than any other is quench oil.

Suffice it to say, Kevin is not a fan of "get it hot and stick it some oil."

 

[james terrio]

What steel is that?

15" comp cutter in ElMax or CTS-XHP will get you pretty dang close to the $50 mark in raw steel alone... just sayin' Whether or not one should build a comp cutter out of those alloys is open to debate, but since I don't know of anyone who has, yet... it might as well be me

..."you can't pick up a turd by the clean end"...

You can't polish a turd, either. But that's a whole different can of worms, I suppose.

Canola oil and a proper HT will get 100% from 1084.

I am reasonably certain that's true. 1084 is not a "super steel" (cheese and rice, I hate that term, but there it is again) and is probably the very best choice for makers who don't care to invest much time or study into HT.

All in all, this is disappointing. This is a mistake I'll not soon repeat.

Hang in there, man. The hardest part of learning to make knives is wading through the morass of half-truths, misunderstood "facts" and outright bullshit. Yup, you can quote me on that.

 

[lazlo]

15" comp cutter in ElMax or CTS-XHP will get you pretty dang close to the $50 mark in raw steel alone... just sayin' Whether or not one should build a comp cutter out of those alloys is open to debate

How much do you think a 2 x 15 x 3/8" piece of CPM M4 runs? I just paid $24/lb for a drop from the Dallas Crucible office. The retail price is around $30/lb.

Elmax and CTS-XHP have outstanding wear resistance, but I don't think they have anywhere close to enough toughness to survive the competition cutting competitions. I've heard that Warren Osborne tested just about every super alloy available. CPM M4 is at a unique local maxima for toughness and wear resistance.

 

[Don Hanson III]

Can't we all just get along.

 

[me2]

Tai,

Being prudent by striking a balance between hardness and the micro-integrity of the steel is a sensible approach that has merit. "Absolutes" are usually attained through sacrifice and the result is usually an unbalanced one. In the final analysis, there is much more to a sound and functional blade than professing to squeak out it's absolute hardness.

Jeff

If canola oil will give full hardness of 1084, rest assured you are reaching full hardness with it in O1, assuming you are following the recommended heating temperatures and brief soak prior to quenching. You can get your target hardness just by choosing the proper quench medium and skipping the tempering step, though very few would recommend it.

 

[james terrio]

Elmax and CTS-XHP have outstanding wear resistance, but I don't think they have anywhere close to enough toughness to survive the competition cutting competitions.

It's entirely possible that you are correct in that assumption*. To be honest, I wouldn't bet cash money on either one without serious testing.

But, I feel it's worth finding out for sure, and I just happen to have a suitable chunk of ElMax on hand. Rest assured, I will share my findings

*EDIT: strike the word "assumption", it sounds snotty, and I didn't mean it that way.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

I have spent $200 on a bar of Corwy-X for a sashimi knife. It was surely overkill, but the knife sold for $1000.

I think the best way to sum up this thread is that there are simple ways to make a knife and complex ways. They are never the same way, though.

1084 and canola are a good combination...... CPM steels and a complex HT with quench plates is a different animal....and W2 and parks 50 is another option. Each has its merit....and its limitations.

Posting that canola is crap is just as wrong as posting that only a commercial quenchant will work. They both have their use.

The fact that this thread has four pages on a one sentence subject does not surprise me. The fact that people keep posting on it shows that there must be a dearth of things to do out there in the real world.


To reiterate Don Hanson III - Can't we all just get along?

 

[BMK]

There are simple ways to do complex things and there are complex ways of doing simple things. E=MC2 is a pretty damn simple and elegant equation. I prefer to keep things simple.

I have spent $200 on a bar of Corwy-X for a sashimi knife. It was surely overkill, but the knife sold for $1000.

I think the best way to sum up this thread is that there are simple ways to make a knife and complex ways. They are never the same way, though.

1084 and canola are a good combination...... CPM steels and a complex HT with quench plates is a different animal....and W2 and parks 50 is another option. Each has its merit....and its limitations.

Posting that canola is crap is just as wrong as posting that only a commercial quenchant will work. They both have their use.

The fact that this thread has four pages on a one sentence subject does not surprise me. The fact that people keep posting on it shows that there must be a dearth of things to do out there in the real world.


To reiterate Don Hanson III - Can't we all just get along?

 

[lazlo]

But, I feel it's worth finding out for sure, and I just happen to have a suitable chunk of ElMax on hand. Rest assured, I will share my findings

So you're going to make a 10" chopper out of Elmax -- nice! Look forward to it!

 

[Pete84]

I have spent $200 on a bar of Corwy-X for a sashimi knife. It was surely overkill, but the knife sold for $1000.

I think the best way to sum up this thread is that there are simple ways to make a knife and complex ways. They are never the same way, though.

1084 and canola are a good combination...... CPM steels and a complex HT with quench plates is a different animal....and W2 and parks 50 is another option. Each has its merit....and its limitations.

Posting that canola is crap is just as wrong as posting that only a commercial quenchant will work. They both have their use.

The fact that this thread has four pages on a one sentence subject does not surprise me. The fact that people keep posting on it shows that there must be a dearth of things to do out there in the real world.


To reiterate Don Hanson III - Can't we all just get along?

I agree. Well put.

I'll wave the olive branch - i got a little hot under the collar unnecessarily and replied less than thoughtfully. I didnt mean to offend anybody, so if i have, I'm sorry.

As you said, each thing with its own purpose and limitations.

 

[Tai Goo]

I think the best way to sum up this thread is that there are simple ways to make a knife and complex ways. They are never the same way, though.

1084 and canola are a good combination...... CPM steels and a complex HT with quench plates is a different animal....and W2 and parks 50 is another option. Each has its merit....and its limitations.

Posting that canola is crap is just as wrong as posting that only a commercial quenchant will work. They both have their use.

To reiterate Don Hanson III - Can't we all just get along?

Great relativistic conclusion,… but I doubt the absolutists will like it.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Pete asked me to close this for him.

He said he thanks all for their input, and that it is time to put this thread to rest.