How Could This Happen?

So far I'm in agreement with every perspective brought up on this here.

What amazes me is that when something like this happens the media brings in any damn drooling idiot with a semi-LEO title to tell us all about what went wrong and what we should all do about it. (a Security Officer from the local mall? let's use him! he has a badge!)

The other day on Fox news (I expected better from them) they had some retired cop saying how it's all about the guns. a revolver was harder to get from a holster than an auto. Then he did a visual comparason between a S&W K frame revolver in about a retention level 2 holster next to a Glock auto in a De Santis belt slide holster. Wow...that's a real sensible analogy :rolleyes:

Of course I guess maybe they do still have Magna-Triggers available for S&W wheelguns...let each cop trade in thier Glock for a Model 10 and wear a ring on both index fingers...

It seems we're forever doomed to be searching for technical solutions and adding more rules to avoid addressing an educational or moral dilemma directly and effectively. Idiocy and political correctness kill again.
 
Federal funding for police and corrections is down, states are in fiscal quicksand, and then cut budgets for police and prisons.
There is a cost we pay for tax cuts.
I have had lots of students who either work in prisons or have family members in them as guards or as wardens. Illinois has been on the brink of shutting down some prisons, and has cut funding for everything - higher ed, prisons, you name it.
There are too few policemen and too few corrections officers - and they should get paid much more for what they do.
Prisoners can be very inventive. I had a student who worked the key room at a medium security prison in NC.
He had one of the most dangerous jobs in the place - they frequently uncovered plots to kill the guy with the keys.
Prisoners smuggled in guns in body cavities!
(Freedom Arms 22s - not Colt 45 ACP or 44 mags)
 
Can this quote from the artcile Bill referenced be true?

Nichols had faced a life sentence if convicted in his retrial. His earlier trial had been declared a mistrial when jurors voted for acquittal.
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This is not the way our judicial system is supposed to work. Once acquited by a jury of your peers you are supposed to be free of further trials for the offense.

Reporters often mess up when reporting on legal cases. I sincerely hope that was the case this time. If not, the unexcusible murders become at least more understandable.
 
Runs with Scissors- that's it- technical solutions to moral and legal issues. Don't be surprised at Fox news coverage of firearms issues. They are supposed to be 'right wing', but the truth is that they are nearly as ignorant of firearms issues as ABC. That their small move towards a semblance of reason on the issue still awards them the Right Wing label tells you how far left the media is on this issue.


munk
 
clearblue said:
Watching the scene caused me to ax mysef:

Why were there few to no white deputies on the Fulton County Courthouse detail?

How many successful cases for white PO--lice brutality against blacks have been brought against Fulton County?

Is Fulton County predominantly a black community?

Are the Fulton County Leaders white?

Why did Nichols only kill whites unless confronted by a black?

I just don't understand????????? :(
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CB,

Atlanta is primarily a black community with black leadership. I really don't see racial issues in this incident. Far as I can tell.

We do have some really tough SWAT guys here called the "Red Dogs." That is Fulton County. The street rumor is that if a perp resists or runs, they will injure the perp so badly that he will have to be hospitalized. So do not run from them. Still don't see racial issues.

Wish the Red Dogs had been guarding Nichols. Doubt that he would have tried anything.

I have heard that Atlanta blacks would rather face a white cop than a black one. And most of our murders-- the huge majority -- are black on black.


HOWEVER we do have some one-sided racial activities that would drive the Afro-Americans nuts if the word "white" was subsituted for "black."

Black History Month
Black Arts Festival
Black Southern Baptist Council
Black Concerned Clergy
Black Jazz Festival
Black Education Network
Black Entertainment Network
Black Evangelism and Counseling Association
African American Golf Association (Why can't they leave us ONE sport? It is the only sport where white men can dress like black pimps.)

We do have the NAACP (National Association for the Advancement of Colored People) You don't hear "colored people" anywhere but there and they never spell it out.

I enclose a picture of a sign I took down after a recent county-wide election. These were EVERYWHERE! Imagine the furor if "White" was substituted for "Black."

I am feeling discriminated against. But I don't really care.
 
I think the problem here was just porr/insufficient training. The bailiff, man or woman, big or small, should have been able to control this guy easily.
The training just wasn't there.
 
No one person, male or female, would have stood much of a chance against a muscled up 6'1" 210lb thug if he had the element of surprise. As for holsters, there is not a one that is 'snatch proof'. They are only 'snatch resistant'. A strong and determined person can get the gun no matter what.

As for Nichols, I hope they burn him when they catch him.

Ice
 
That's just not true.
A well-trained person can control you, no matter how big and mean you are.
I am built like the thug in question (I'm bigger, actually) and I have had my ass whooped by some pretty small people in training over the years, and they didnt need any strength to do it.
Training could have prevented this. Granted, it takes more than the few months granted in the Academy.
LEO people should be training constantly in some form of serious martial art. It should start when they go to the academy and continue until they retire.

Training is more than just body movement. Training gives you sensitivity to bad intentions, which denies the bad guys any element of surprise.

There is no way to go back and fix the damage now, but we can all train harder from now on to keep this bad stuff from happening again.
 
Green Ice said:
No one person, male or female, would have stood much of a chance against a muscled up 6'1" 210lb thug if he had the element of surprise. As for holsters, there is not a one that is 'snatch proof'. They are only 'snatch resistant'. A strong and determined person can get the gun no matter what.

As for Nichols, I hope they burn him when they catch him.

Ice
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They caught him.

Perhaps gun snatching from a LEO is not that uncommon. I was in the Cobb County Courthouse, going up in an elevator. I notice a severe dent in the stainless steel door. I guess it was thick heavy metal .Looked like something had seriously jabbed straight in.

I asked an officer riding up with me if he knew what happened. He said that he was in the elevator with another officer and a prisoner. The prisoner grabbed the other officer's Glock and it discharged. I said that must have been loud and dangerous. He agreed. Said that with the bullet bouncing around in there that he was trying to make a hole in the floor "about there."

No one was injured except the prisioner, I would guess.

Continuing the ramble when I should just shut up, but there are so many stories.... Coming down in the elevator I rode with two female attorneys. One was saying to the other, "Well, since the neighbor wouldn't do anything about his dog pissing and pooping around my mailbox, I bought four dog-crotch-high cacti and .........." faded off.

Wish we could give Nichols a few hours with her.
 
DannyinJapan said:
That's just not true.
A well-trained person can control you, no matter how big and mean you are.
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True DIJ, unless the thug completely surprises you. Grabs your gun and shoots you in a split second. That can happen and sounds like it did. Gonna take the fight out of anyone, big or small, whether they are fast and skilled or not.

Regardless of this being true or not, I think that we all agree that there should have been more and bigger guards. This was, as someone else said, an accident waiting to happen.

I can't understand why he shot the poor court reporter. It is unlikley she took down anything incriminating.
 
fast and skilled or not.
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Now, mind you, I never said anything about speed.
I was talking about training and two of its major benefits:

1. ability to control regardless of strength
2. enhanced sensitivity to hostile intentions

You have to think about it BEYOND fists and guns. You have to think about it at a higher level.
 
I've read of lots of police officers having their weapons, mace, cars used against them. People get careless.

As far as women and law enforcement. I think there should be size requirements that would rule out little people.

I don't think race has anything to do with the case.

I hate to hear stuff like this, and the church shooting thing because this high profile shooting stuff always gets people banging the gong for more gun control.
 
Or this one. I mean TX has right to carry but this does nothing to promote it:

Toddler Shoots Tot In Toy Dispute

Police Say Four-Year-Old Did Not Realize What He Did

Mar 13, 2005 2:49 pm US/Central
HOUSTON, TX (AP) A 2-year-old was shot by his 4-year-old brother, who may not have known the difference between a real and toy gun, police said.

The 2-year-old, who suffered a single gunshot wound to the temple, was in critical condition Saturday night at Ben Taub Hospital. The shooting occurred Saturday afternoon at a home in southwest Houston.

Police Sgt. Cameron Grysen said the boys had been arguing when the 2-year-old threw a toy at his brother. The mother thought the boys had returned to their room, but they had instead gone to her room, where the older boy took a loaded gun from the woman's purse.

"The 4-year-old was angry ... he went and got the gun, put it to his brother's head and shot the gun," Grysen said.

The mother told police she had the .32-caliber automatic to protect her family because of recent neighborhood burglaries, and that Saturday was the one day that she did not secure the weapon. She could face criminal charges.

Authorities said the 4-year-old didn't seem to understand what he had done.

"He's wondering where his brother is, and when his brother's coming back," Grysen said.http://wcco.com/topstories/topstories_story_072155323.html
 
munk said:
Hollow, what is the purpose for this story in this thread?
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Because of this:

hollowdweller said:
I hate to hear stuff like this, and the church shooting thing because this high profile shooting stuff always gets people banging the gong for more gun control.
Click to expand...

That toddler story is a shame.
 
thank you.
in point of fact, alien blood is red too...






( im just joking, i dont actually know what color it is)
 
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