How Difficult Is 20cv to Sharpen (and Live With)?

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I did a few searches on this without coming up with much, perhaps because of my poor search skills.

I recently got a Delica 4 in 20cv, and I'm trying to like the knife, but it can't get it to a very sharp edge. Here's some context:

1) I've only used a strop (green compound) on it so far. I'm a beginner sharpener, and I wanted to move slowly on this.

2) I've use the same strop to get K390 and VG-10 eye-watering sharp.

3) I've also used this strop to strop out a chip in ZDP-189.

4) I know that some will say that a strop is "not for sharpening," but that hasn't been my experience.

So, my questions are:

A) Does 20cv require a specific method of sharpening?

B) Does 20cv not take as sharp an edge as the other steels mentioned?

Thanks.
 
Green compound is VERY limited in what it can do with steels containing much vanadium content. Between the high carbon content (1.9%) and the vanadium (4%) in 20CV, there'll be enough vanadium carbide content to limit how much the green compound can do. The vanadium carbides are about twice as hard as the compound's grit itself. A strop with green compound can do a little bit for a little while, in terms of cleaning up burrs & such - but eventually the edge will become somewhat rounded or blunted via the strop and will need more work. And resetting it to good geometry and a keen apex with a stone (diamond hone) will be much better for that. And beyond that, a strop with diamond or cbn compound would do much better for upkeep, on this steel.

In general, the same will hold true for the other steels mentioned also. The strop can work somewhat, for awhile. But eventually, something more aggressive will be needed to fully restore sharpness and slicing aggression. Green compound tends to burnish or overpolish after too much use. So any toothy character in the original edge finish will eventually go away. And a stone, or in this case a diamond hone as the best option, will be needed to restore it.
 
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Obsessed with Edges Obsessed with Edges Thanks. What you are saying makes sense.

Question: Is there an opportunity here to go to the Sharpmaker before taking the knife to diamonds?
To some extent, yes. A ceramic like the SM's rods can help a little, beyond stropping. But, for the same vanadium carbide-related reasons, the ceramic will also be somewhat limited with vanadium-heavy steels. The carbides will still be harder than the alumina (aluminum oxide) of the ceramic - so, over time, the tool will begin to struggle in restoring the full aggression of the edge in steels like this.

I tried to use ceramics for S30V for awhile, but eventually reached a point where the edge was getting over-burnished and the geometry started to round off. The easiest fix ever, for S30V, is in using a diamond hone to getting it cutting aggressively again. With the SM, you have the option of the diamond or cbn rods also. That'd be worth looking into, for these steels.
 
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A) Does 20cv require a specific method of sharpening?

B) Does 20cv not take as sharp an edge as the other steels mentioned?
A) No. Just because we invent something new, doesn't means that the basics methods suddenly becomes wrong. The basics of sharpening still applies and whichever method of sharpening that gives you the best results will still give you the best results. It just takes longer.

B) Sharpness depends on your skill, not the steel or the stone (given that the steel is properly heat treat and the stone is decent).
 
So, my questions are:

A) Does 20cv require a specific method of sharpening?

B) Does 20cv not take as sharp an edge as the other steels mentioned?
A) No. I sharpen all my good knives on the Wicked Edge. I usually go from 100 grit to 600 grit. 800-100 grit if needed.
B) 20CV takes the same edge as any other steel. It as has great edge retention in my experience (M390/20CV).
 
So, my questions are:

A) Does 20cv require a specific method of sharpening?

B) Does 20cv not take as sharp an edge as the other steels mentioned?

Thanks.

GOOD QESTION,, I SEE NO ACTUALL ANSWERS.....
A) No.
B) My 20cv takes as good an edge as any other steel I sharpen.

Was that ACTUALL answer good enough for the QESTION?
 
I've had many knives in 20cv and if anything, it's one of the better steels I have found to get and keep sharp.

Take a month or two's knife money budget, and invest in a KME or some other good, guided, sharpening solution, and really learn how to use it and then steel type doesn't really end up mattering a whole lot for sharpening, just the amount of time. FWIW I am a big strop fan too, but it's tough to make a dull knife sharp with a strop... they are more for maintaining a sharp knife and getting a sharp knife hair popping.

Watch your strop angle too - it's easy to put too much angle/pressure on it and then you make your edge obtuse.
 
rileybassman1 rileybassman1 I may get a guided sharpening system — the KME looks like it would work for me — but I just have this idea stuck in my head that I want to sharpen freehand. We shall see. The road to freehand sharpening is slow at the moment because of the pandemic. I can't seem to find any used cheap-o knives to practice on.
 
KME is a good system. Get the diamond stone set with the 300, 600, and 1500 grit. Read the instructions and follow them and you'll have a sharp 20cv knife.

try to sharpen it with soft stones and you'll wear out the stones and still have a dull knife. Like trying to cut down a tree with a cardboard saw, the cutting instrument needs to be harder than what you cut.
 
I did a few searches on this without coming up with much, perhaps because of my poor search skills.

I recently got a Delica 4 in 20cv, and I'm trying to like the knife, but it can't get it to a very sharp edge. Here's some context:

1) I've only used a strop (green compound) on it so far. I'm a beginner sharpener, and I wanted to move slowly on this.

2) I've use the same strop to get K390 and VG-10 eye-watering sharp.

3) I've also used this strop to strop out a chip in ZDP-189.

4) I know that some will say that a strop is "not for sharpening," but that hasn't been my experience.

So, my questions are:

A) Does 20cv require a specific method of sharpening?

B) Does 20cv not take as sharp an edge as the other steels mentioned?

Thanks.
I was in much the same spot not that long ago. The sand paper on mouse pad or foam method works. Easy to do as you learn. Now I use a diamond plate, strop grey, then green, with practice it works wonderfully on even the hard steels. With practice gets pretty easy, but you have watch the angles. On softer steels watch out as the diamond will take a lot off Fast! There are diamond pastes for use on a strop. i haven’t tried those.
 
I was in much the same spot not that long ago. The sand paper on mouse pad or foam method works. Easy to do as you learn. Now I use a diamond plate, strop grey, then green, with practice it works wonderfully on even the hard steels. With practice gets pretty easy, but you have watch the angles. On softer steels watch out as the diamond will take a lot off Fast! There are diamond pastes for use on a strop. i haven’t tried those.
Oh and i find 20 cv easy to live with, just ordered a new We in it.
 
rileybassman1 rileybassman1 I may get a guided sharpening system — the KME looks like it would work for me — but I just have this idea stuck in my head that I want to sharpen freehand. We shall see. The road to freehand sharpening is slow at the moment because of the pandemic. I can't seem to find any used cheap-o knives to practice on.
Yep I have been there too... I can sharpen by freehand, but it ends up being slower and not as exact and honestly, not as good... in the long run, I've been way happier having a "constant" in my sharpening. I use a knife in the field (hunting for example) or cutting up an elk or whatever, I use a stone and I can quickly get back to work, but when I'm done after cleaning etc I take it to the KME and "reset" my edge... once I have an established edge, it's super quick, super precise, and super easy. Where it takes time is if I want to reprofile... but that takes time no matter what. YMMV, but I used to take a lot of pride in my freehand sharpening, but I just straight up got better results when I used a guided system... which in turn makes me much more willing to "use" a knife as I don't worry about getting it sharp again.

Someone mentioned above about sandpaper and mouse... I do that a lot too and that can be a great solution for convex or convex edge. I usually hit my convex blades with a Convex KME rod and maintain with sandpaper/strops.

You can sharpen with a strop... again I push maintaining is their strength... when you have any sort of edge damage, diamond, stones, and or sandpaper are the way to go.
 
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