how do i know if its annealed??????

J.McDonald Knives

J.McDonald Knives

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Jan 28, 2007
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i just heated up and flattened out part of a leaf spring that im going to use to practice on and make some throwers out of it. how will i know if it is annealed? i got it up to non magnetic after flattening it out and then shut off the forge and let it sit in the forge for aout 20 mins then slid it out and let it rest on the fire brick infront of the forge and on another fire bick about 2 feet away from the forge. the temp outside is about 70 degrees F and its in direct sunlight.
 
Annealed is a relative term :)

Assuming you "like" the hardness you ended up with and
can work with it (milling, drilling, grinding etc etc), then
it is "annealed".

Most folx, that don't have oven that can drop 20F/hr for
10hr, money to pay the electric bill AND the patience reqd,
simply use "vermiculate" - a common gardening item
from HD/Lowes . You heat up the blade just the way you
did and then bury it in vermiculate . You retreive it hours
later, still sizzling hot, but perfectly annealed :)
 
Rashid's right....generally, you want the blade to cool very gradually for optimal results. But if you can cut and work the steel without too much trouble, then you've somewhat accomplished your goal.
-Mark
 
I learned the hard way when I lived in Ohio though. Vermiculate is hard to come by in the cold weather months of those areas of the country that get really cold. Since you're in Texas, you shouldn't have much trouble finding it all year round. I now make sure that I have enough on hand, even though I live in an area that doesn't get too cold, but still does receive a little snow from time to time. It doesn't really get used up, but it get dirty from the oil eventually. Best part about it, is that it's very reasonably priced!
 
polish avenger said:
Rashid's right....generally, you want the blade to cool very gradually for optimal results. But if you can cut and work the steel without too much trouble, then you've somewhat accomplished your goal.
-Mark
Click to expand...
What ever happened to having you come and visit my shop? It's a mess right now though. If you don't mind, I don't. I'm going to be tinkering around in it this weekend, while watching sports. (Cable TV in the shop and beer in the fridge!)
 
Jacob, What you did with the leaf spring should be fine. Other steels require a lot longer and slower cooling off period. The leaf springs are done to a spring temper. Not all that hard in fact you can normally cut them with a power band saw without much of a problem.
 
scottickes said:
What ever happened to having you come and visit my shop? It's a mess right now though. If you don't mind, I don't. I'm going to be tinkering around in it this weekend, while watching sports. (Cable TV in the shop and beer in the fridge!)
Click to expand...

Scott, that's a fine idea! I've probably got some time to spare today and tomorrow. Shoot me an email and we'll work out the details.
-Mark
 
PimpinSquee said:
i just heated up and flattened out part of a leaf spring that im going to use to practice on and make some throwers out of it. how will i know if it is annealed? i got it up to non magnetic after flattening it out and then shut off the forge and let it sit in the forge for aout 20 mins then slid it out and let it rest on the fire brick infront of the forge and on another fire bick about 2 feet away from the forge. the temp outside is about 70 degrees F and its in direct sunlight.
Click to expand...

Put it on a Harden Test and check the hardness of the steel. That the way most knife makers do it. If you check it with a file you will never know exactly what it is. Doing it like that is just guessing.
 
would a pile of ash from burning brush work? i have a nice pile in my yard from when i burned all my cedar trees i cut down. its been sitting for about a month. if that will work then i dont have to get any vermaculite.
 
PimpinSquee said:
would a pile of ash from burning brush work? i have a nice pile in my yard from when i burned all my cedar trees i cut down. its been sitting for about a month. if that will work then i dont have to get any vermaculite.
Click to expand...

I use ashes and sandbox sand. I pre-heat the sand with pieces of wrought iron anchor chain. Then put the blades in and add another piece of heated anchor chain on the top and close the draw.:D
 
i have a nice big hunk of thick leaf spring i can heat up and set in the ashes. will that work? i also realized i need a bigger faced anvil. going to grab the other one that is at my grandpas house and take this one back. i also need to figure out how to point my burner towards the back a little so that it heats the whole forge better.
 
Keep tinkerin'! Eventually you'll have a process that works for you. It's not so much how you get it accomplished, but that you get it accomplished that counts. The finally result is what matters. We all go through a learning process as to what works best for each of us.
 
since i dont have sand i got the next best thing out of my yard. limestone. im going to see if it works. i mixed an equal amount of limestone and ash and then set a firebrick on the bottom and then heated up a piece of thick steel and covered it up with the mix sitting on top of the fire brick and then i heated up the leaf spring to non-magnetic and set it on top of the other piece of metal and recovered it with the mix. im just going to let it sit there and slowly cool off and check it in a few hours to see if that did the trick. my forge heats up nicely. i got it glowing bright orange once it warmed up.
 
well it worked. i just finished cutting off the piece i annealed. file cuts easily. smack it with a 4lb sledge and it bends a little. still need to clean it up smooth and draw the profile. wont be able to cut it out until i get more cutting wheels for my angle grinder. $1.99 Makita 4" cutoff wheels that are the thinest i can find and they work like a charm. it will work for me until i can get a cutoff saw.
 
Just a simple question for the knowledgeable people.
If you heat a piece of steel up to a black heat, well above any tempering-colors, but well below any redness in the steel.
Would that also be annealed?
I don`t know everything about this stuff, but i just thought, if you temper at too high a temperature, and ruin the hardening, you are generally left with soft steel. From what i know, soft steel is annealed.

So, my question is: Do you really need to heat steel up to a red heat, to anneal it??
 
you have to heat it up just past non magnetic so that it actually gets soft. it worked great on the piece i did today. im trying out a second piece that im going to let cool down over night while still in the forge. the forge is off but was already warmed up completely. i put a firebrick on top of the piece sticking out so that it would trap as much heat as it can so that it slowly cools. im hoping that works. if it does then i just found a way to anneal while im asleep.
 
Its great that you've gotten the forge up and running! I'll have to check out the new photos. Are you going to do stock removal or forge to shape and clean up with the 1x30? The thing that I've always liked about forging is that you can keep most of your metal and clean up the shallow hammer marks. I generally have more time to do knife stuff at night, so forging is mostly out of the question as I'm in suburbia, so I just use mine to heat treat. The neighbors do occassionally try to figure out what the glowing orange circle in the driveway is and why there's all that grey smoke.
 
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