How do they even stay in business....?

Joined
Mar 24, 2001
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I'm just wondering how companies like United Cutlery even stay in business with the mess that they manufacture. I've never seen a knife from them actually have an edge that could cut hot butter. Do people actually buy knives from them to use, or just as display pieces...? I don't mean to offend anyone, but I don't know why anyone would buy knives from them. Always looking for an education....Chris.
 
How does Frost Cutlery stay in business? Oh yeah there are plenty of suckers for cheap blades with low quality.
 
I think the answer is that knife knuts are a relatively small group of people!

The first knife I ever bought was a Frost Cutlery 7"+ bowie with desert camo plastic handle and sheath. I loved the cool looking serrations on the clip, and since it was made of surgical stainless steel, and surgical instruments are sharp, my knife must be good!

That is how non-knife knuts think. They don't know the difference between 420j2 and 420V, so they go:

knfie A: liner lock. Knife B: liner lock. Knife A: $120. Knife B: $12! Gee, I can get the same knife for oen tenth the price!! Gimme knife B!

I'm sure there are other reasons why, but I bet the oen I mentioned is a major one!
 
To the average knife knut buying a $100 + knife is something rich lunatics do. Why spend that kind of money on a piece of steel when I can get this high quality surgical steel piece from Frost Cutlery. To their credit UC invests more money in marketing than most of the rest of the industry combined. Perhaps, there is a lesson there, time will tell.

N2S
 
One could ask the same question about several automobile, computer and software companies. I'd imagine Frost makes more money than several smaller "high reputation" companies.


Sad but true.
 
Hmm..then seems like price is the major selling point. That and lack of knowledge too. I know of a few friends that used to buy those cheap Spyderco knock-offs years ago, but I turned them to the Dark Side. hehe. I've heard Frosts actually makes a few good knives, like their deck knives and fishing knives. However half of their inventory looks like something you'd find in a bubble gum machine.
 
Many years ago when I was on a family vacation in Hawaii, I spotted a very cool looking knife. The handle appears to have been made of bone and steel and brass liners. In the bone portion is a ship done in scrimshaw (I hope it is scrimshaw). The blade is spearpoint in design. Upon opening it the first thing I see is "The Widow Maker". Now that is cool. Looking closer it says "Frost Cutlery" and below "Surgical Steel". Thinking to myself...this must be the finest steel available. :eek:
I have no idea how much it may be worth.
Now I don't want to know....

Ignorance is expensive.
Gord.
 
I suspect United is comfortably profitable.

Watch what sells at your local sporting goods store, B&M shop, gun show, or even the lowly HSN; its knives of United's quality or less .

We are the fanatics, the average knife buyer is not.
 
It's easy for them to stay in business...I see it at every gun/knife show I set up at.......By time most guys pay $4-$6 to get in the show, then stop buy the concessions stand, they have about $10-$15 left in their pocket. They go buy the guy's knife table who has all the United Cutlery/Frost and Chinese Knock-off's and that is all they can afford. Not to mention, they get get a really big sword or some wild looking Rambo/Dagger knife for $8 and feel like they got their money's worth. Then.....they come by my table and see Sebenza's, Microtech's, Pro-Tech's and so forth....and say.........."shew, I could buy a gun for the price of that knife" or "man, you really got some nice stuff, I'm gonna have to think about that":D, or they say....."damn, I can get 20 of those automatics for the price of 1 of Knives & Things Blades "! Not to mention, the mark-up on that UC stuff is about 300% as well........ Mean while..that United Cutlery Dealer is laughing all the way to the bank........ Just my perspective, but I still had a great show this past weekend with Reeves/Pro-Tech & CRKT & Cold Steel :D
 
Gord, and I thought Prof was the sly rascal -- Luke AFB, the South and now Hawaii. Quite the traveller, eh ? Good for you!! As to your knife puchase in Hawaii, hope it doesn't turn out to be like the ones you saw at the trade show in Toronto. Maybe we're all older and wiser now. I'm sure you'll enjoy your new 705. Keep us posted. Package going your way within a week. Have fun Cuz ------
 
A few minutes ago I was in Wilderness/Survival and one thread was on "what fixed blade you would take if you could only have one."

Funny I should now happen across extremefishin's question on UC stuff!

After all the answers on that thread listing mostly Busses, with some Beckers and khukuris and other tough knives as well, I was REALLY tempted to post my choice:

A UC "Gil Hibben Space Warrior" with multiple points--very convenient for roasting multiple marshmallows over your campfire!

Yeah, I would've done that, but it would've been my FIRST POST at that forum, and someone probably wouldn't have liked it! (And I have no idea whether or not UC sells Gil Hibbens, or if there is a "Gil Hibben Space Warrior.")

But you get the idea...these knives exist for us to joke about. Thus, they serve their useful purpose with little fanfare and respect.

Not trollingly,

Karl
 
You really get what you pay for. Most people don't place the same demands on their knives as we do. They might open an envelope or something, but that's about it. We actuall use ours, and can justify the high price tag. My friends constantly tell me I'm an idiot to pay $120 for a knife. Even after explaining how I need a high performance knife, and how it's cheaper to buy one quality knife instead of constantly replacing cheap knives, they still don't understand.
 
Depending on what you're into, UC makes some good looking blades. I've got a few hanging on my wall, and while I wouldn't buy them now, I was happy with them when I got them. Even now I think they look better there than anything I could afford to replace them with. Cost isn't the only issue; many websites sell a lot of UC blades for $100 and more. There's the coolness factor for people who like the looks. UC knives are for the non-user, uninformed collector. There's a lot of those and they spend a lot of money. Look at the Franklin Mint knives. UC has also bought the names to a few well-known companies and the names alone sell well. There's a lot of guys who think that a Harley Davidson or Colt knife must be good. Without BFC to tell them otherwise, how are they to know? I remember an ad that caught my eye in my naive youth. It was in the Bud K catalog and said, "Who else wants to pay $100 for a tactical folder?" below which was a $5 folder. That ad mirrored my thinking at the time. I've grown older and wiser, and many UC fans who know that their $80 Hibben knife will impress their teenage friends more than a $100 710 or $350 Sebenza may also. FWIW, I used to buy $10 folders and my latest acquisition is a CF LCC DA, so there may be some hope for those misguided souls. BFC helped me find the light (and the edge) and I'm sure it has (and will continue to) for others as well.
 
Three words for you - gun show crowd. I tell you, these guys go so ga-ga over the Gil Hibben stuff its unbelieveable. That and the fantasy swords they produce. Basically the more unpractical, more dramatic looking it is, the more they like it.

Of all the tables of retailers I visited at the Blade Show, not one had any UC stuff that I could see. There might have been some retailers there that had them but they were very few and far between.

Go figure....
 
I think we tend to lapse into high-end knife snobbery around here.

All knives, provided they're not just plain unsafe (like some of the worst Chinese linerlock specimens, for instance) have their place. Yes, price IS a huge selling point for a lot of people; why do you think disposable lighters sell so well when a Zippo is of much higher quality?

United is, in my opinion, the best of the low-end knife importers, and does not deserve to be equated with the worst of the Chinese Frost imports. (For instance, it is thanks to United that one may buy a variety of movie-knife tie-ins. Yes, they're generally of very soft steel, but most of them are never intended as users anyway.)

More than once I've heard participants here -- who probably rank in the top 1 percent of all knife buyers -- state that their first knife was some Frost or United cutlery item of which they're now ashamed. But what's wrong with starting on the low rung and working your way up?

Let's not dismiss as "stupid" or "cheap" those folks who haven't yet worked their way up the quality ladder, or who shudder at the idea of dropping $100 or $200 USD on a single folder. And if a person's tastes pull them in the "fantasy knife" direction, who are we to call them fools? Taste is subjective; Gil Hibben is a respected, skilled custom knifemaker, regardless of what you might think of his United collaborations.

As long as they're not unsafe, there are no truly bad knives -- only knives of varying degrees of quality and functionality.
 
United Cutlery has been in business for a while now, and they do sell alot of knives. I'm sure there are many who would not give United knives a second glance, there are many collectors who do. There a re numerous Gil Hibben fans that collect alot of the fantasy stuff and I know of several knife nuts who began their addictions with United Cutlery knives.
 
Razoredj does have a point. I never thought of it before, but UC is one of the few companies that provides a great deal of fantasy designs, that would otherwise be too costly if premium materials were used in their construction. And others were right when they said UC was a good starting place for first time buyers.Sorry if I called any buyers of UC stupid, my purpose wasn't to offend.

Chris.
 
I'm with Razoredj on this one too! I wouldn't put United in the same catagory as Frost. they offer a specific niche for some collectors.

In fact, I own a Hibben Kenpo II and I'm very happy with the quality and finish of the piece. I'm sure it's not quite the quality if Mr. Hibben had done it himself, but it's also not the price it would be either.
For the price, some of their stuff is hard to beat, and makes a good place for beginners to start. (oops, that sounded snobby, sorry!)
 
I'm not going to blanket Frost with negativity, either. There are two levels of Frost merchandise: manufactured in China, and manufactured in Japan (or assembled somewhere with blades of Japanese steel; for all I know, some are assembled in Taiwan). My point is that while some of the Frost stuff is the absolute lowest end, a lot of the rest of it is comparable with the United products (and dirt cheap to boot).

Take, for instance, the Widowmaker Leemah1 mentioned. He sounded pretty happy with it until everyone started telling him, "Frost sucks!" I have one, too. It's a rocker-lock folder with an oversized guard built into the pivot-end bolster; the blade is a slim spear-point, I think, and sharpend on only one side. There's a nail nick in the blade, and I don't think you could open this sucker with one hand without an aftermarket stud.

There are different handle materials, including faux ivory (some with 'scrimshaw') and honeycomb bone; the rest of the furniture is brass, and the knife came with a quality leather sheath. And all this was fourteen dollars a few years back. Quality is on par with Taiwanese imports (at least as they were before CRKT raised the bar a bit), not the Chinese junkers. (And even Chinese junkers have their place, since one sometimes needs a knife for vile tasks unsuited to nicer blades.)

I once examined a honeycomb bone-handled folding straight razor from Frost that was quite nice, with a super-sharp blade and nice lockup. And the Frost "Undertaker Bowie" (not the Chinese copies of it, but the original Frost article) was of similar quality to United's Hibben pieces.

My point is that even Frost makes some worthwhile, inexpensive stuff, and there are plenty of consumers out there perfectly happy with these until we stick our upturned noses into it and tell them they should be dissatisfied. I once posted here (or maybe it was in the "other" forum) asking about the dual nature of Frost's product line -- Chinese imports versus knives of obviously higher quality -- and received nothing in the way of useful replies. Instead, I got post after post of, "Why would you want that crap? But a Sebenza instead."

That's the trap we fall into here: dismissing knives we consider beneath us, to the point that we sometimes ignore legitimate issues, concerns, or questions in our haste to consign entire manufacturers' lines to the dustbin of BF rejects. The same could be said of some marketers; we love to bash the Bud K catalog (and even Smoky Mountain), yet these sellers provide us with a great many items at near-wholesale prices, and always seem to include at least a few top-quality items amidst the low-end merchandise.

Me, arguing for tolerance and inclusion. No one is as shocked as I am. ;)
 
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