How do they even stay in business....?

[not2sharp]

Whoops, I though I noticed a whiff of smoke...

Before this gets too far out of hand I thought I would chime in with an observation and a confession.

First the observation:

A few years ago I found myself in Texas with a rental car and few extra hours on my hand. I decided that it would be nice to actually see something so I hit the road and headed out of town. Within about two hours I was literally in the middle of farm country, driving on farm roads, and hitting communities with populations in the hundreds.

To my surprise I actually came across a knife shop out there. Inside was a broad selection of knives by Frost cutlery, Colonial and a few others. That was about it. Nothing by Buck, Gerber, or anyone else we would be interested in. The owner was selling these knives to the local farm labor, and some local collectors, and these guys couldn't afford to spend the price of more mainstream knife.

But, they were certainly not using them as wall hangers. They were using the knives for field work every day and wearing the blades down to toothpick size - the owner actually had a large shoebox full of these worn out knives. When they broke or lost a knife at work they would simply drive by and drop $5 for a replacement.

So there is a ready market for these knives, and what ever our opinion of them might be, they do work. Probably 99% of the kitchen and table cutlery across the planet is made from 420J or less.

Now for the confession:

I own a couple of United Cutlery pieces; and, I keep them next to the knives they were intended to reproduce. While the finish is inferior to the handmade pieces it's not bad, and they are actually fairly faithful reproductions of the original. They are a good way for a young person to start off. The kid gets to try out different styles, and figure out what he likes, while learning how to use sharpening tools.

N2S

 

[Razoredj]

My point being you seemed to be getting a little upset that I was critical of this steel. I was providing my point of view, thats all.

Nobody's getting upset. Be careful trying to read tone in posted text.

I understand the concept that these knives are NOT intended to be used, but do the owners know this?

I think in most cases they do; those that do not will learn. Most fantasy pieces aren't more than a hundred dollars (US) or so; that's not cheap, but it isn't going to kill anyone.

My main point being that these are not cheap knives and this kind of junk could put a potential KnifeKnut off bothering again.

Only if they're the quitting type. My first swords were those stainless steel "Highlander" sword-like objects. When I discovered they were made of steel unsuitable for use, it didn't put me off knife collecting; I just sold them and bought something better.

The use of such knives for ceremony also requires the ability to cut? Unless it is to be pure look?

A ceremonial knife would be required to cut certain things, yes -- but nothing that could not be accomplished with a knife of 420J2, unless you're into sacrificing animals or something strenuous like that.

I think they are ugly, but as I said this is only my opinion, whatever turns people on. I just wanted to point out that I think a lot of people DON'T realise they are made from this poor 'steel'.

Could be. We all have to learn somehow. I think you'll find most people here went through that same learning curve.

 

[Razoredj]

Excellent point about kitchen cutlery, by the way. Most of the kitchen cutlery in common use by Joe Average is indeed soft, stainless steel -- specifically because this holds up better in dishwashers, as far as rust goes.

In my own kitchen I have some cheap set of serrated cutlery that was given to my wife and I as a wedding present (I think). Roughly comparable with "Ginsu" knives, these knives have never been sharpened and regularly travel through the dishwasher. They do just fine for all our kitchen needs, and are probably the knives that see the most use in the house.

 

[rdangerer]

Originally posted by extremefishin00
I'm just wondering how companies like United Cutlery even stay in business with the mess that they manufacture. I don't mean to offend anyone, but I don't know why anyone would buy knives from them. Always looking for an education....Chris.

I think it was PT Barnum who said something to the effect of "There's a sucker born every minute" or somesuch.

Don't overestimate the average intelligence or prosperity level of Joe Average American. You only have to watch the politicians on television, as many of them have mastered the sad art of manipulating selected information, sans-facts, into self-serving and unbalanced spin, a sort of pablum that they well understand they can spoon-feed to lazy journalists, pablum that is easy for the thoughtless (toothless) public to consume, pablum that speaks to the emotional side of the average US slob and his distorted, unbalanced thought process.

I have been very humbled by my inability to understand how the average US citizen thinks or behaves...or drives an automobile, etc.

The Marketing people at United Cutlery and others clearly understand a market niche that eludes me personally. Can you imagine the job satisfaction (lack thereof) in dreaming up $hitty, shiny baubles for the low-end consumer to waste his/her money on? Franklin mint? Etc? Depressing.

I'm sinking into cynicism ... I must move on to lighter things.

 

[Razoredj]

The latest Blade magazine, if I remember correctly, included a lengthy article on Kit Rae's fantasy designs for United. He seemed very proud of his work, and enthusiastic about the knives he has had a hand in creating. You may consider his work ugly -- I do, for that matter -- but he seems an earnest lover of knives, regardless of what you think of his tastes.

Rather than baiting suckers, I think United's market niche is an important one to the industry. Their knives are purchased both by those unwilling to pay more for a knife (who eventually, if they stick with the hobby, decide they are willing to pay more), and folks who genuinely like the off-the-wall fantasy knives offered by makers like Gil Hibben.

As I said before, many of us here got started with United, or similar merchandise. Given the thousands of hours of enjoyment I've received from knife collecting (or would it more accurately be termed "accumulating?") I figure I owe them my thanks, not my contempt.

 

[The General]

Yep, I am a dummy! I 'felt' you were getting a little 'annoyed'?

I am sorry, heck I was tired and typing a bad thing to do.