How do they even stay in business....?

I agree about tolerance. It's all about what's the best knife for you, not someone else. If you like the knife you own, and it will perform all the duties you require of it, then it is a good knife...carry whatever you like. Not everyone needs to be able to stab through the hood of a car! :)
 
Originally posted by not2sharp
To their credit UC invests more money in marketing than most of the rest of the industry combined. N2S
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Just wondering why this is to their credit? Frankly I'm not familiar with UC to any extent but I find an awful lot of knife ads are complete bollocks. How many ads have you seen where some POS knife claims to be "high quality" or used or designed for some branch of the military or implies that the crap steel that they so proudly annouce being made of is really good stuff. Almost any ad you see uses lots of meaningless phrases like "ultimate survival knife" or "high quality".

Anyone seen the television ad for the Buffalo Nickel knife they are selling for about $20 as a collector's item. I think they actually call it "the finest knife you'll own" or some rot like this.

Most advertising is crap. In my book you get little or no credit just because you spread it wide and thick.
 
Razor,
Very astute and a very FAIR assessment. I agree with most of what you stated. We ALL become SNOBS sooner or later whether it be about knives or otherwise. We are humans and we humans love to believe OUR opinions are valid and others aren't unless they agree with ours.

I remember years ago before BF existed and a poor newbie on another forum had the gall to make a post stating he liked Franklin Mint knives. He also asked what we on the forums thought about them. I cringed when I read that and just knew he would get slaughtered. I was right and folks came out of every crack and cranny, (even complete luckers), and laughed at him and asked how he could be so gullible and stupid to like such junk and to ADMIT IT on the forums. I don't mean to be righteous but I came to his defense and asked why everyone was doing this to this new guy? Instead of slamming him, we should be welcoming him to our ranks and at the very LEAST, politely educating him on the values of a quality knife. I even admitted I had three FM knives and I liked them because they had cool pics of my Colt Python and my Ford pickup on them. After my post to the thread a lot of folks reassessed their condemnation and agreed they had been too quick to judgement and welcomed the gent to our wonderful world of knives, which was great.

I do believe that one should collect and enjoy the best he can afford but some folks just can't afford to, (like me but I do it anyway because it is my PASSION!). If a guy or gal comes here and likes United, Frost or whatever, the bottom line is, HE OR SHE IS WELCOME HERE! Our world of knives seems large because most of us hang around these wonderful forums but believe me, in the broad scope of things, it ISN'T. We NEED every single newbie that comes on board here to broaden our world.

I love ALL knives but will admit I think Hibben fantasy pieces and some of the stuff going around is downright silly. But if you like them, I'll enjoy your enthusiasm. Heck, I LOVE Spydercos and a lot of "experts" think I'M silly!

I agree with Razor in that even United and Frost has distributed some nice stuff that is Japanese made. I have some United miniature folders that were made in Japan that I purchased years ago and I would compare them to just about anything I've seen. Fine MOP and stag and VERY well made. I enjoy the hell out of them.

I realize that a lot of the folks that love Hibben, United or whatever, will sooner or later, (through our polite, enthusiastic prodding), start to appreciate good production stuff like Spyders and BM. They will also move on to appreciate classic handmade folders of the likes of Carson, Ralph, Crawford, etc. But if they never go beyond the Hibbens and Frosts, God bless 'em and again, they are welcome here!
 
Well I have been thoroughly educated. Haha. Seriously though, I can see now the type of niche that makers such as United Cutlery and Frost fill. I never really thought about the sci fi market before, until I realized the only other way to get fantasy knives like Hibbens, is to get one from the man himself,which could cost much much more than the versions UC puts out. And I must admit Ive seen a couple of knives from Frost that impressed me as good quality. I also own a franklin mint knife, and though it is pretty shoddy when you take a closer look at it, it still looks nice from a distance. I guess the same would apply for the products put out by UC. Great for hanging on the wall, but not much else. Guess I've become one of those steel snobs, though I don't believe now that I have any right to be one. Oh well, I'm probably just as crazy for paying the prices I do for Spyderco or other big name makers, not that I'm complaining of course. Heh heh. Have a good one guys and gals.


Chris
(now looking for that Hibben knife from Mortal Kombat....):D
 
Hey Extreme -- I think you started a great thread. But, in an earlier post in this thread, I think it possible that you confused Frost and Frosts. The latter is a company that sells Mora knives made in Sweden. Most are quite inexpensive, and are good quality knives.

I agree that snobbery is rampant in our world at times. Wish it weren't so, but know it applies to me too. One of the chapters in Ed Fowler's book is focused on the subject of people getting good value out of their knives in different ways, and how wrong it is for those who know and understand "good knives" to put them down and make fun of them. I gotta keep telling myself to "walk a mile in the other guy's shoes." It is hard to remember often.
 
Razor and Gene are right. We need everyone we can get to appreciate and revere the ownership, love of, and carry of ANY type of safe, usable knife available. I hope no one thought I was "putting down" Gil Hibben knives. Yeah, I was funnin, but that's me!

Fact is, I have my own ideas of "fantasy knives," and I'd love to have nice looking, if "unusable" examples of naginata, yari, and other weapons just to hang on the wall.

Even I have a cheap, POS Spyderco knockoff (which I got free with an order from BQ) which I wouldn't defend other than to say it serves a very useful purpose for comparing with the quality of the real thing for anyone who doubts there's a difference.

Fortunately, even though I am only recently a hard core "knife knut," I have always had decent quality knives since at least Jr. High School (that "Elinox" wasn't an "official" SAK, but it was pretty good quality and for 50 cents was probably the best knife deal I've ever made). Bucks, Gerbers, a Victorinox, and my first Spydie were all purchased when I was just an "average" pocketknife consumer and would have thought anything over fifty bucks was insane (except for a buddy's original AMK SERE Attack--geez was that one hunk of steel! and I think it cost about 200 bucks back around 1982?).

So again, humble "POS" "cheap" or "fantasy" knife owners--if you belive in being able to own your own blades or cut things without having to ask for the government's permission--welcome to our world!

Karl
 
To be perfectly honest here, I owe a debt of gratitude to UC and the such(mostly United cuz their stuff looked so cool back then). I started off collecting knives, and about all I could afford was the above mentioned. As time went on, it was getting more expensive to buy these knives and they wern't "performing" any better. So one day, I got fed up grabbed a file(still fully hardened:( ) went to my bench grinder and started hogging away. 8 years later I'm making and selling my own and have been for 6 of those years.( But boy am I glad I learned about annealing:) So there ya go
 
I remember reading how the Hibben knives sold the best at most gun shows. A dealer said they sell right away and he can never get enough! Is it just me or does a 420J2 steel knife make you feel sick? Its like buying a Ferrari only to find the engine is made by Skoda! All look and no book!

I once thought wow! $100 for a knife, they must be MAD! Then when that was what I was paying more often than not, I thought $345 for a knife! They must be MAD! Then I bought one of those, now even customs don't make me think people are MAD, just more wealthy than me!;)
 
Is it just me or does a 420J2 steel knife make you feel sick? Its like buying a Ferrari only to find the engine is made by Skoda! All look and no book!
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420J2 is a soft steel, but provided it is properly heat treated, it will function as a knife. Yes, it will need frequent sharpening -- but it will work. As long as you know what you are buying, and don't expect more than the knife is capable of giving, I see no reason to feel sick about it.

Most "fantasy knives" are never intended to be used hard anyway. I mean, what possible use could a Gil Hibben Hornet have in the field? I see them for sale frequently in occult stores and catalogs as ceremonial knives, and that's probably a very good use for them.

A knife of 420J2 isn't likely to rust on you just sitting around, either, and I'd be willing to bet that's very important to the average fantasy-knife-buyer (whether he knows it or not).
 
Like I said, all look and no book...:D

Lets face it, they ain't mega cheap knives are they?:barf: Price wise:rolleyes:

I tried to sharpen a 420 J2 knife once, it was one I was given by a pal to 'sharpen up'. It would not take an edge, hell no wonder it would not rust, you need SOME carbon to promote rust after all:p !

I would rather own a basic 425M/12C27/440a/6a knife if rust resistance was an issue, hell with a satin finish try getting them to rust! At least they hold something like a reasonable edge. IMHO any maker that uses 420 J2 unless it is a diving knife is insulting the buyer. A downright open slap to the face, it is a bare faced cheek! Or is that cheeks?;)

Guess what... 420 J2 is ANOTHER thing that annoys me:D !
 
Well, don't buy a knife of that steel, then. The point is merely that for some buyers, knives of this type suit their needs or desires -- and that is all that matters.
 
oooooook:) . Just providing my point of view, no need to take it out of sorts?:confused:

If you don't need a decent steel in a knife, why bother buying a knife? My point being that 440a style steel would be almost as cheap to use and give these ugly 'things' at least a little useability.

420 J2 is a joke.:D
 
Agh. Thanks for pointing out that Frost and Frosts are two different companies. Always thought they were one and the same. I'm just a lil bit wiser now.

Chris Mapp
 
Hi All

You know it is funny just how many different types of knife people that are out there.
I make a lot of my own stuff and it is not Randall quality but it gets the job done.

I collect butterfly knives and I have a couple of automatics also
most are cheapies, one reason is they are not used for combat or assasinations. Just sit there and look pretty on my shelf. If I was going to carry it for defense or survival then lets spend some money :rolleyes:

I guess what I am saying is if you are going to use a knife for sharpening a pencil then by all means save money but if you want to go to town then have quality equipment.

On the other side of the coin I can't understand what makers are thinking when they sell a peice of steel with a sharp edge for over 100 dollars when I could make it in an hour or less. Granted they may be using pricey steel and expensive heat treatment..... NAW lets get real here I saw Tai Goo make a knife out of a leaf spring that would cut iron. I feel that there is too much hype these days. You dont need high tech stuff to get a good edge.

Please dont get me wrong I dont mean to sound boastful, there are many makers much better then me ( I am just a hobbyist ) but I think that people are charging way tooooo much for these little peices of steel and selling them as street survival equipment.

Knifesmith
 
Originally posted by The General
Just providing my point of view, no need to take it out of sorts?:confused:
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You're confused? I'm confused as to precisely what you think has been "taken out of sorts," or why.

If you don't need a decent steel in a knife, why bother buying a knife?
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I guess you've missed a few of the earlier posts in this thread. One of the best uses for 420J2 is for fantasy knives, which are popular precisely for how they look (or for their associations with various movies). In most cases, these knives are too pretty to use; their owners will wish to keep them as display pieces and in unused condition. That is exactly why such a knife needn't be of the best steel around. The other reason 420J2 is popular for such knives is because it's easy and inexpensive to grind. This keeps the prices of the fantasy pieces within range of most everybody.

My point being that 440a style steel would be almost as cheap to use and give these ugly 'things' at least a little useability.
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Since they're not produced with usability in mind -- many fantasy knife designs actually make them next to impossible to use for much of anything -- it's a moot point. And even if you consider them ugly, there are plenty of people who don't -- which was another point made in this thread.

420 J2 is a joke.
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Gil Hibben and Kit Rae are laughing at your joke all the way to the bank.
 
My point being you seemed to be getting a little upset that I was critical of this steel. I was providing my point of view, thats all. I understand the concept that these knives are NOT intended to be used, but do the owners know this? My main point being that these are not cheap knives and this kind of junk could put a potential KnifeKnut off bothering again. The use of such knives for ceremony also requires the ability to cut? Unless it is to be pure look?

I think they are ugly, but as I said this is only my opinion, whatever turns people on. I just wanted to point out that I think a lot of people DON'T realise they are made from this poor 'steel'.
 
United Cutlery doesn't make anything. They are an importer. Their products range from the cheap to the sublime to the bizarre. It is easily the deepest product line in the industry. Their brand names include Henkels and Kissing Crane. Colt and Harley Davidson are another couple. Some of their knives perform very well indeed. others aren't designed to perform but just to be looked at.

They do very little in the area of high end tactical knives so they wouldn't be very popular with the folks on this board. Actually, they are popular with a significantly larger segment of the market and are very successful at it. Different strokes for different folks, as they used to say.
 
Everyone seems to be forgetting that there is a group that knows the difference between good steel and good workmanship, but has to settle for what they can afford. I would love to carry a $200, or higher priced knife, if it would work better than what I have. I just can't afford it living on S.S.. I use knives all of the time. A knife is designed to cut. My Paragee cuts just as well as a much more expensive knife. My ODE Wedge is always ready when I need it. Being dissabled, I don't expect to get in a knife fight. I have a Colt's Defender .45, for knife fights. It isn't very quite, bet it does the job. The knives that I have open feed sacks, cut boxes, clean and cut up small game, clean fish, cut the itchy name tags out of my wife's shirts, do what ever they are called upon to do. I may have to run into my workroom and plut them on the crock sticks, or Lansky more often, but I think that they get just as sharp as a custom knife. Thanx for letting me rave. I enjoy reading all of the posts, and if I ever get enough $ to buy a high priced knife, I will use the knowledg gained here or help me make my pick.
 
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