I've gotten knives shaving sharp with everything from files to coffee mugs. They would all shave the hair off my arm, not my face. Pretty much anything will work if you know how to do it. I took care of the kitchen knife block Sunday with the belt sander. My standard procedure for my carry and work knives is 220/1000 grit waterstone, followed by the Sharpmaker. Sometimes I use a strop, but not usually. I've also gone to a 0.3 micron sharpening film for stropping, but I'm out of them right now. I'll probably try the sandpaper over leather trick this weekend on my Griptillian, my current EDC. And I still need to send that Delica to Richard for the paper wheel treatment.
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How do YOU get your knives hair-popping, or at least shaving sharp
- Thread starter crimsonfalcon07
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Actually the other way around. I said it looks easy to use, but that I'd start with refining any errors in technique with my existing tools as knifenut suggested. So far so good; knives which were formerly shaving sharp for my friends but not for me are now hair popping sharp. It was just that last buff I think that was eluding me. Think my strops just aren't good enough to get that last little bit of metal smoothed out like the tape on the block.
And of course, that BM 530. Spent some more time on it trying to get that edge straightened out in case it's convex. Still feels sharp, but cuts like :grumpy: Needs more work!
80 grit is definitely not overkill with a belt sander, as long as it is used correctly, with a light touch. Optimum use of a belt grinder is with light pressure. If you have to push very hard, you are doing it wrong. As has been said so many times before: let the abrasive do the work. Once the initial bevel is set, then move to a finer grit. This method minimizes the heat that is being put into the blade.
If one can't afford a magnifier, the next best thing is the sharpie trick...sometimes I still use a sharpie even with the magnifier. I also second the recommendation from Dave about lighting. You can't really have too much, especially when using high levels of magnification.
If one can't afford a magnifier, the next best thing is the sharpie trick...sometimes I still use a sharpie even with the magnifier. I also second the recommendation from Dave about lighting. You can't really have too much, especially when using high levels of magnification.
with that coarse a grit you can only use light pressure or you'll eat up the edge in a hurry. the weight of the blade is usually enough unless its a large blade. then you have to hold the blade up some. i have my sander set to run really slow which helps too.
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My bad. Yes definately WEPS not difficult to use. Technique still a factor.
P2P
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rofl!!!
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I am thrilled that I am not the only one. I can barely shave my arm hair even if I can cut telephone book paper with ease, and I don't !! have thick hair!!
I just don't think "our" hair is a good benchmark for sharpness, for what ever reason.
Andy
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this i have no doubt.
but i'd like someone to elaborate why going so low in grit for sharpening on a powered device ??? i don't need to go that low on stones why would i on a belt sander ? even 120 grit sounds weird to me. most EU knifemaker i talked to sharpen on micron belts ... or at least way finer than that
important precision, in europe people tend to be way less equiped than you in the US, i know very few people that have a belt sander at home, i have one at the restaurant but i seldom use it, the only ppl i know are knifemaker or hobbyists.
I've sharpened on rough belts like 80 and 120. The reason I use them is speed. My kitchen knives see some rough use and frequently have nicks in them. Last time I sharpened them I used a 120, 180, and leather belt. Also, if I'm rebeveling a knife, I'll use 80 or 120. The rougher belts are also faster for things like machetes, which have a lot of metal to remove even if not damaged. Some also feel the rougher belts, even if followed by leather w/ compound, give a longer lasting edge.
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god what do you do with your kitchen knives ? the only use i have for my belt sander is getting an edge back on my employees knives every once in a while ... like 4-6times per year. and i only need a couple of light passes per side at 320 (the finer belt i've found for my cheapo belt thing, odd size don't get you much grit choice) to get a burr. i already thought they treated their knives like crap...
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80-120 grit sounds a little harsh, as I typically only need to go maybe my 240MX belt(P800 or 25 micron equivalent) to raise a burr on a badly dulled edge. Anything lower and I risk changing the edge bevel with a single pass.
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While it is very easy to remove more metal than intended at these lower grits on a belt sander, it's my opinion that the speed of a powered sander actually tames the larger grit belts somewhat. By hand my 80 grit edges are very coarse, with a light touch on a sander these edges appear to have been done at a higher grit, say in the 220 range. My machete was done at 320 grit and lightly buffed with a cork belt and arm hair falls away from the edge. I don't have the stones to try it, but I imagine it could shave facial hair. I can't reproduce an edge like that with 320 grit sandpaper by hand, have to go up to 800 grit or so. And if the belt is worn the functional grit rating could be quite a bit finer than what's printed on the underside.
HH
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I will treat this as 2 separate questions.
1. How do I get knives sharp.
2. How do I KEEP knives sharp.
Depending on how you look at it, #1 is the easy one. Depending on the steel I will select a sharpening method and finish grit. Some steels seem to perform better for me at a coarser finish. Generally (as in most of the time) I use DMT plates to profile and sharpen my knives, though sometimes I use other things (when special needs arise).
#2 is sort of different. There is a practice and an "art" to keeping knives sharp. I am not being an arogant jackass in saying this "art" thing. It is just a realization that I have come to over the years, that if you take a new knife owner and hand him/her a knife the edge will degrade quickly over use. Then you educate that person on how to cut without destroying the edge....and the edge will last a bit longer. Then seemingly over the next period of time (perhaps a year) there is a subtle learning process that they often go through on their own. After that, their edges will last a long time!
I attribute it to developing skill and sense about how to use a knife and how to predict limitations. This is not a hard fast rule, but it seems to hold more often than not.
I generally will touch up my edges frequently and keep them quite keen between "sharpenings". I made a video last weekend in a poor attempt to demonstrate how easy it is to maintain a fine edge.
1. How do I get knives sharp.
2. How do I KEEP knives sharp.
Depending on how you look at it, #1 is the easy one. Depending on the steel I will select a sharpening method and finish grit. Some steels seem to perform better for me at a coarser finish. Generally (as in most of the time) I use DMT plates to profile and sharpen my knives, though sometimes I use other things (when special needs arise).
#2 is sort of different. There is a practice and an "art" to keeping knives sharp. I am not being an arogant jackass in saying this "art" thing. It is just a realization that I have come to over the years, that if you take a new knife owner and hand him/her a knife the edge will degrade quickly over use. Then you educate that person on how to cut without destroying the edge....and the edge will last a bit longer. Then seemingly over the next period of time (perhaps a year) there is a subtle learning process that they often go through on their own. After that, their edges will last a long time!
I attribute it to developing skill and sense about how to use a knife and how to predict limitations. This is not a hard fast rule, but it seems to hold more often than not.
I generally will touch up my edges frequently and keep them quite keen between "sharpenings". I made a video last weekend in a poor attempt to demonstrate how easy it is to maintain a fine edge.
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I am not going to act like I have knowledge regarding WHY it is this way, but I can tell you that it IS this way.
Grits behave differently on powered devices. Perhaps it is the speed that the abrasive is moving, perhaps it is the effective pressure that the operator can NOT (or DOES not) impart (compared to standing over a fixed abrasive). I do not know, but I have observed numerous times that an abrasive on a powered tool does not seem to leave the same scratch pattern as it does if you use the same abrasive on a fixed bench.
That said, My experiences during polishing various things, I have used fairly coarse media to get a higher degree of polish than I expected by using VERY light pressure, and moving my project MUCH faster than I would if I were sharpening.
Like I say, I am not going to act like I know WHY, but I have observed that I can get very different results with fast moving abrasives than I might expect based on my experience with fixed abrasives.
Edit to add. I doubt anyone would contest that an inexperienced or untrained person with a powered coarse abrasive COULD eat up a piece of work in short order. Many of these people using these very coarse abrasives have some degree of instruction and experience that has taught them how to achieve good results. As with any type of metal work...it is generally best practice to let the tools do the work.
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Now, this makes some sense to me. I'm also one who's never used powered devices for sharpening. So, I can't presume to actually know what exactly goes on. But, it does seem to make sense to me, that a coarse (very coarse) grit media on a fast-moving device might not 'dig' as deep, simply by the fact that the pressure applied by the user absolutely MUST be light, lest something really bad might occur (blade gets chewed up, blade gets grabbed & thrown, etc.).
I think the natural tendency for most people, including me, when using coarse grit by hand (unpowered), would be to lean into it more, making for a deeper, more aggressive cut of the abrasive media into the steel. So, I can see that the scratch pattern produced in this manner, might look a lot more coarse than that produced by the same grit just very lightly skimming across the steel at higher speed, on a powered device.
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You have made some excellent points.
Heavy pressure will not only damage the work, but will OFTEN result in damage to the abrasive, and the person holding the work. I suppose this is also true of fixed abrasives, but the bodily harm could be much higher degree on powered tools.
There to bear down on fixed abrasive work is real, and should be avoided in practice. Regardless, *I* still find myself (especially on BIG jobs) applying too much pressure occasionally. When I try to go up in grit progression the evidence is CLEAR, and I then return to the stone where I started to polish out the deep gouges it created (due to adverse pressure)...sorry getting off topic a bit here perhaps. So the saying of let the tools do the work ALSO applies to unpowered tools.
Good points though!
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Yep. I am getting better at 'letting the grit do the work', even free-hand, but I find I still sometimes have to deliberately remind myself of that. It seems more natural to lighten up now, when I can see I'm getting closer to being done. But, at the coarse stage, I still do have a tendency to try to give it some 'grunt'. That's when the little voice in my ear says, 'WHOA, big fella!'
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i think i've not been clear enough, my bad. i don't question the result
the question is more is there a reason going that low while i have no trouble rebeveling or bringing back very dull damaged edges with a 320 belt. usually with one pass i can get a burr on a well treated knife, with a couple more i can repair neglected edge. usually i don't care about polishing when using my belt sander. i rechape employees knives, then it's their job to deburr and hone the edge.
SO, is there any practical advange going that low over the finer grit that lets you get the job done in a couple of passes. if it's only for speed i don't get it. 80 grit may leave a finer scratch pattern on a powered device it still removes material at a speed that sound completely unnecessary to me.
the question is more is there a reason going that low while i have no trouble rebeveling or bringing back very dull damaged edges with a 320 belt. usually with one pass i can get a burr on a well treated knife, with a couple more i can repair neglected edge. usually i don't care about polishing when using my belt sander. i rechape employees knives, then it's their job to deburr and hone the edge.
SO, is there any practical advange going that low over the finer grit that lets you get the job done in a couple of passes. if it's only for speed i don't get it. 80 grit may leave a finer scratch pattern on a powered device it still removes material at a speed that sound completely unnecessary to me.
I'm really not sure why they have so much damage. I had assumed it was the dishwasher, but I've had significant chips come out of the blade of my favorite Food Network knife, which I don't put in the dishwasher. However, there are dents and chips in most of the knives every time I sharpen them. This is probably the first time since summer they've been to the belt sander. I normally just use a Sharpmaker and ignore the dents and chips until they become excessive and I have to remove them.
This last time only one knife needed the 120 grit. It was a paring knife that got a spin in the garbage disposal. 10 or 12 passes per side on my very worn 180 grit belt didn't remove the damage and raise a burr. 2 passes per side on the 120 followed by 2 per side on the 180 and it was back to shape. I've used 320 and 220 grit belts and they are very quick, and the edge off a 320 grit plus powered leather is wonderful. I don't have access to such fine belts now and the 180 plus leather will produce a tree topping edge in fewer passes, usually one or 2 per side. I must say I rarely use 80 on knives. 120 is about as coarse as I go. Machetes and such are done this coarse if I have to remove damage. I also use a very light touch, barely deflecting an unsupported belt.