How do you sell yours Knives?

[Les Robertson]

Hi Kevin,

Selling custom knives is like selling anything else. Each commodity has its own lexicon and variables.

Most people have difficulty reselling their custom knives because they "bought what they liked".

That is to say, they do not understand the makers position in a particular primary market, they do not understand "desirability of materials and design elements and a makers desirability in the after market.

Which is understandable as most makers don't understand and of the aforementioned as well.

To be successful at any kind of selling you first have to understand what the market you are in wants.

There in lies the problem for most sellers.

Speaking strictly for myself, I do not "horse trade". I sell custom knives, that are "value priced." As well some knives are sold with a premium attached due directly to the demand in the after market.

WWG

 

[Les Robertson]

Hi Joss,

Ah! That makes sense.

I think Dave does a lot of consignment sales. That may explain what appears to be "cut rate prices on some of the "older" knives.

Take the knife you just bought. I suspect that the knife may have been sold for a "premium" over what Don originally sold for when it was made.

If that is the case then it is not a "cut rate price." While it may appear to be a great price (compared to what Don is asking now). The selling price may be at a premium, in which case the knife is a bench mark for Don's older work. Which in theory should raise the prices of currently made knives in the after market.

Every time a site is updated or an auction happens. This is merely a snap shot of what a particular knife is selling for at this time. In other words it is the price that the "market will bear" at that particular time.

This is what I don't understand with regards to collectors. If you are not in it to make a profit on your knives. What a knife sells for should make no difference to you at all, none, zip, nada.

WWG

 

[Joss]

Take the knife you just bought. I suspect that the knife may have been sold for a "premium" over what Don originally sold for when it was made.

Nope: that's the knife I bought from Nordic:
http://www.dfoggknives.com/GFighter.htm

Nordic's price was lower.

 

[Stephen F]

The following paragraphs are from my Seminar entitled "The Business Of Custom Knives"

With this in mind, most of the custom knives we buy are commodities. It's neither bad nor good. Just a by product of a capitalist free market.

WWG

But by definition, when commoditisation occurs, buyers no longer care who they buy from!

Investment in Knives "101" revolves predominantly around "names", so if they are commodities how can they be investments?

Stephen

 

[Les Robertson]

Hi Stephen,

You are correct. Buyers of custom knives do not care who they get their knives from. Maker, fellow collector or dealer. If they have a knife the collector wants at the time they want...they buy it.

The same way a Van Gogh is a commodity and a collectible and investment all at the same time. The buyer of his work does not care the source of the opportunity to buy his work...they just want the knife

As for Knife Investing 101, I have to disagree with you that it revolves predominately around names. This may be the case if you are looking for an arbitrage.

The biggest smiles in custom knives right now are those who bought Bob Loveless knives in the 60's and early 70's.

However, all this investment talk is moot. As custom knives are not bought as investments.

WWG

 

[Kevin Jones]

Kevin,

Lets start by seeing your answers, to your questions.

P

Hi Peter.
I will bet you know my answers to the questions?

But I will answer them later, when I have time to get into detail.

Surprised we haven't had any input from makers as you have more skin in the game then anyone in regard to how others sell your knives.

 

[Stephen F]

Hi Stephen,

You are correct. Buyers of custom knives do not care who they get their knives from. Maker, fellow collector or dealer. If they have a knife the collector wants at the time they want...they buy it.

The same way a Van Gogh is a commodity and a collectible and investment all at the same time. The buyer of his work does not care the source of the opportunity to buy his work...they just want the knife

WWG

WWG, we agree on a number of things, but on this I cannot - in my opinion what you are referring to is a commoditisation of the distribution network, not the product itself, which is still highly differentiated.

Cheers,

Stephen

 

[Les Robertson]

Hi Stephen,

In my Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, a commodity is defined as:

1) Something Useful or valuable

2) An economic good

3) An article of commerce

I think you would agree that Custom Knives fit into all three of those categories.

Wikipedia defines Commoditization as: Commodification (or commoditization) is the transformation of what is normally a non-commodity into a commodity.

There is no mention of a "distribution" system. Distribution systems are usually determined after the commoditization occurs, not before.

Once the commoditization of a commodity occurs, in this case a custom knife. The distribution of this commodity (custom knife) occurs primarily through one of 4 delivery methods,

1) Maker direct

2) Dealer

3) Collector

4) Auction site (Ebay)

Can't speak for the English definitions of things, only how we do things in the US.

WWG

 

[jdm61]

I broke even on a couple of knives and as for the rest? Well,let's just say that the only knves that I have made money on were ones that I made myself.......and that's highly debateable if you factor in labor cost....lol

 

[Don Hanson III]

Surprised we haven't had any input from makers as you have more skin in the game then anyone in regard to how others sell your knives.

Kevin, good thread. Even though I don't comment on all, I do read them all.

How I prefer to sell my knives:

First choice....Make a knife and offer it for sale on my site.

Second..........Sell them off my table at shows.

Third.............Sell to dealers.

Orders are out of the question now, I have too many. Which makes the above three choices very difficult.

 

[jdm61]

Kevin, good thread. Even though I don't comment on all, I do read them all.

How I prefer to sell my knives:

First choice....Make a knife and offer it for sale on my site.

Second..........Sell them off my table at shows.

Third.............Sell to dealers.

Orders are out of the question now, I have too many. Which makes the above three choices very difficult.

Good for you. Don. But htis raises a very interesting question. Do you kill your rather expensive ad now that you aren't takingorders anymore?

 

[Stephen F]

Hi Stephen,

In my Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, a commodity is defined as:

1) Something Useful or valuable

2) An economic good

3) An article of commerce

I think you would agree that Custom Knives fit into all three of those categories.

Wikipedia defines Commoditization as: Commodification (or commoditization) is the transformation of what is normally a non-commodity into a commodity.

There is no mention of a "distribution" system. Distribution systems are usually determined after the commoditization occurs, not before.

Once the commoditization of a commodity occurs, in this case a custom knife. The distribution of this commodity (custom knife) occurs primarily through one of 4 delivery methods,

1) Maker direct

2) Dealer

3) Collector

4) Auction site (Ebay)

Can't speak for the English definitions of things, only how we do things in the US.

WWG

Actually Les what you are referring to is the Marxist defintion of a commodity (ironic really given your last sentence )! In modern economics a commodity is something supplied or sold without meaningful differentiation. But hey, what do I know, I'm a collector

Stephen

 

[Don Hanson III]

Good for you. Don. But htis raises a very interesting question. Do you kill your rather expensive ad now that you aren't takingorders anymore?

Joe, I only run 5 or 6 ads per year in Blade and feel this is money well spent.

As has been mentioned before, if you don't keep your face out there, people will forget you.

The Blade ad, along with shows and my presence here on the forums has been working pretty good for me.

 

[Bladeandbarrel]

"Masters of Horsetradin" Dumping six or eight ABS knives on the forum exchange at a time and dropping their price until they sell isn't horsetradin, it's more of a "fire sale" IMO or as WWG so eloquently puts it "turn and burn".

It is neither if you don't lose money.

If you don't like the answers, stop asking the questions.....

I broke even on a couple of knives and as for the rest? Well,let's just say that the only knves that I have made money on were ones that I made myself.......and that's highly debateable if you factor in labor cost....lol

Joe, Joe, Joe shame on you for not doing your homework, especially on the Bagwell and McWilliams pieces.

 

[Les Robertson]

Hi Stephen,

You are incorrect, that is Webster's definition. I checked and Karl Marx is not listed as a contributer.

In "The Portable MBA Desk Reference" is defines a commodity as:

A highly standardized product (I think you could say ABS knives are standardized ...done so by specific requirements to obtain both the JS and MS stamps) or service.

Consumers will buy a commodity from whichever manufacturer offers the lowest price.

In this case the manufacture would be the maker. Remember my example of how commoditization occurs. A maker copies the innovator and sells the commodity cheaper.

The author is Paul A. Argenti. Again, no mention of Karl Marx.

Stephen, it seems you are trying to put qualifiers from your other business ventures on custom knives. Perhaps this is wrong.

What I am using as examples come directly from the custom knife market in the US. Without any help from any of the Marx brothers, Groucho, Chico, Harpo, Zeppo, Gummo or Karl.

As a collector you view will be vastly different from mine.

The changes in modern economics (as from years gone by) is the speed at which information can move. This in turn makes the globaliztion of commodity/business a reality that was not thought possible even 15 years ago.

First rule of economics....Supply and Demand (since the first sale was made).

All that aside, what we are talking about here is the making/selling and reselling of custom knives.

A small niche market on a global scale.

WWG

 

[Joss]

Custom knives are no commodity. Commodities have to be completely interchangeable - say an ounce of gold or a pound of sugar. Anything that is a unique piece cannot be a commodity.

 

[Kohai999]

Joe, Joe, Joe shame on you for not doing your homework, especially on the Bagwell and McWilliams pieces.

The McWilliams HAD some rather severe scratches in it. Now they are just hairlines.

For the condition of the knife, the price paid was fair.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[fludunlimited]

at this point as a new maker I am glad to sell to
a collector that has a good name with all you guys and lets people know what thay think of my work. I have been verry lucky to have had suz aka TKC and dudley aka Dawkind as my first two cusomers as for price its hard to judge what to sell for so i put it up and if it Doesn't sell I lower the price. any advice from makers and collectors
would be appreciated. feel free to pm me if ther is a better way.

 

[jdm61]

The McWilliams HAD some rather severe scratches in it. Now they are just hairlines.

For the condition of the knife, the price paid was fair.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

Agreed on that one. Actually, the McWilliams and the Bagwell are the 2 that i DIDN"T lose money on. But what can I say.....when the taxman cometh and the real estate market is in the crapper, sometimes you needs to raise that cash. The good news is that I sold 2 knives at right around Les Robertson recommended MSRP this week

 

[Stephen F]

Hi Stephen,

Consumers will buy a commodity from whichever manufacturer offers the lowest price.

In this case the manufacture would be the maker. Remember my example of how commoditization occurs. A maker copies the innovator and sells the commodity cheaper.

WWG

Les, why does a traditional slipjoint by Tony Bose command such a premium compared to the work of say, Bill Ruple? Both make knives that cut, are of good quality, and of good materials.

If both make an identical knife, lets say a copy of the Remington Silver Bullet trapper, why will the Bose be worth more in the after market than the Ruple? Remington was the original Manufacturer, both Bose and Ruple will sell for far more than the "innovators" indexed market price, and one of those who copies will command a far better price than the other!

If you are correct and they are commodities then all knife collectors and investors are idiots surely?

Cheers,

Stephen