How do you think he made this?

Not sure if this helps, but when I was younger I learned how to walk before I learned how to run. More importantly, I learned how to run before learning how to play soccer. I probably would've ended up much more injured and unhappy if I tried to learn to play soccer before I knew how to walk.

Hopefully one day I will learn to do such beautiful handle shaping, but right now I could spend days just trying to get a plain handle to fit nicely and flow with the blade profile. Then again, I'm still quite the newbie.
 
Like Frank, I do this type of work by hand. I do it with a variety of flex shaft tools....and a lot of repetitive cuts. I use mainly carbide burrs and tooling.

I first mark out the pattern in black marker. Then make a center cut using a round edge wheel burr. I follow tis started line with ball burrs and flame burrs to create the shapes I want. 90 degree knife edge burrs are used to make sharp lines. From there I go to sanding sleeves and Cratex rods,wheels, and other shapes in sizes from 1/8" to 1". These will give the rough carved channels and flutes a smooth and sculpted look. The final finish is done by hand with all sorts of hand shaped slips and abrasive papers. The 3M abrasive cloths are tops for this type of polish work.

The process is slow and can be frustrating, but it can be done by a well practiced hand. It has taken me thirty years to gain the skill to do a so-so job.

Using an expensive CNC 3-D pattern makers mill is how the guys in the big time do it. Most of them are tool and die makers or jewelery pattern makers, and have equipment we can only dream about. Some of these complex pattern mills can cost $1,000,000. A good set of carbide ball mills can run a thousand dollars.
 
I can't tell anyone what is good design, I do realize that. But the idea of learning to crawl before trying to run in the Olympics seems like a sound idea. ;)

My biggest gripe about this type of stuff is for people who feel the need to explain how to do something when they have no idea how to actually do it, let alone do it well. How many times are there posts by people explaining just how to do something, and the same week they are posting pictures of their FIRST knife??? :rolleyes: :)
 
I don't know Nick. Sometimes it can give you an idea of where to start. As long as you look at the info with the poster's experience in mind.
 
For what it's worth, Nick's post about aesthetics in knives, comparing them to women and car salesmen, was gospel to me. I personally don't even know if it's always about learning to walk before trying out for the Olympics. I can think of some makers who apparently have an enormous bag of tricks, that still make knives that look "gaudy" to me. Lines are the most important thing to me, followed by material selection. It's all just my opinion, and with me is largely affected by my largely Japanese design sensibilities.

Frank's knife posted earlier has both beautiful lines and classy materials, IMO. He can carve all he wants, (and please do, Frank) if you took the carving off the knife it would still be gorgeous.

I'm always learning how to make knives, but really learning at this point how I make them. I've regressed from trying to depend on machines for everything, now I use them where appropriate and hand finish everything. The more machines I obtain, the less time handwork may take me, but it's always going to be a big part of my work.

I've worked in Ken Onion's shop when a Haas CNC mill ran all day on the side. That machine turned out some AWESOME 3D flame work, etc. with the help of a good programmer (Jeff.) I want one and no one can tell me that it's cheating. It's an opportunity to extend my creativity and be far more prolific than I could dream of without it.
 
NickWheeler said:
I can't tell anyone what is good design, I do realize that. But the idea of learning to crawl before trying to run in the Olympics seems like a sound idea. ;)

My biggest gripe about this type of stuff is for people who feel the need to explain how to do something when they have no idea how to actually do it, let alone do it well. How many times are there posts by people explaining just how to do something, and the same week they are posting pictures of their FIRST knife??? :rolleyes: :)
Click to expand...


Nick, we aren't all knifemakers(yet). I posted that it could be done with a CNC mill because I have some background in CNC machining, not because I have experience in knifemaking. Just because someone has no experience in knifemaking doesn't mean they don't have anything to contribute to the conversation. ;)
 
Clean, simple lines can often be the height of art in knives.

For what it's worth, I don't care how a maker gets there as much as the end result. If a CNC knife was beautiful and exactly as envisioned, I'd take it over a hand carved job that didn't look as good but had 40 times the work into it.

I agree with Nick's point, many makers venture outside of their skill level without knowing it. It's one thing to attempt to do the work and realize you need to improve, it's quite another to do your best and think it's good enough, no matter how it comes out and then start passing down your experience.
 
Sorry, I don't think I worded my post very well.

I'm not trying to dissuade someone from contributing. A person could be an expert CNC machinist with zero knife making under their belt and have all sorts of information to share.

My gripe isn't even this thread specifically. It's the type of responses a thread like this typically gets. And please don't think I'm trying to be some sort of an elitist... I have gained new ways of looking at things from people that wouldn't even know how to turn a grinder on. It just gets me when you see people posting things as fact, or things that look like they've been gained from experience when they are purely theory at best. I can think of two people specifically that have posted in MANY threads about heat treating... yet they ended up sending their blades to me for heat treating with my salt bath because they couldn't get their blades to harden. Should someone like that really be posting like some kind of authority when they can't actually do what they're telling others to do???

This thread was just sort of the proverbial straw...

I should keep in mind that it's the internet, and the information is free. ;) :)
 
Here is a few photos of some guns I did years ago.
I have taken the rifle to few shows with me and had machinist tell me that I did it with a mill? :confused::rolleyes:

But I would have to tell them NO! - I did it ALL by hand, with a file & sand paper...... :)
The fluting on the rifle goes completely around the barrel, the pistol the first one I did, you can see it only goes around half way, I was just getting started and was still a little scared. :D

The secret to it IS time, you have to take enough time that you do it right.
The rifle a Puma 38 - 357 stainless, took me over a year to do.....:eek:

Only did one rifle but did hundreds of pistols, sorry guys I do not do them any more.



Rifle_AABBCC.jpg


162c.jpg


162b.jpg



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bigal2me said:
The secret to it IS time, you have to take enough time that you do it right.
The rifle a Puma 38 - 357 stainless, took me over a year to do.....:eek:

Only did one rifle but did hundreds of pistols, sorry guys I do not do them any more.
Click to expand...


That is bad@ss! NIce work. I'd be afraid to even try, cuz I'd likely ruin a really nice gun! :D
 
I was impressed with the first pieces I saw Of Nick and Todd. I still am with the ones I get a chance to now see. Salem, thank you for your compliment. The truth is that for me it did start out without the flutes but much the same shape. There is much that goes into what makes a knife look good. There is lots that goes into a knife to make it work good. Who would have believed Todd's firearm's file work was hand done and lots of the CNC stuff looks too good to be machine done. Is it a compliment to you when someone asks what machine did you place this in to do this or that work for you? There are those that do know what it's all about and do recognize what state of the art is visible and soon become most appreciative of your work. It's artistic ability, knowlege, and working experiences that can bring it all together. Some of us are very slow in our progress curves upward but we continue in our efforts, at least I do. I encourage everyone else to continue as well. I see many around me achieving remarkable results one way or another. Frank
 
shotgunner said:
That is bad@ss! NIce work. I'd be afraid to even try, cuz I'd likely ruin a really nice gun! :D
Click to expand...

LOL - :D

One of the last pistols I did was brand new out of box (the rifle was also) and I had to put it in the vice to break the barrel off the main frame.
Well it starts turning in the vice, putting deep gouges in the barrel. BigAl an me were laughing about it.

Cause soon as I got it off, I took a file to it......:D

I don't know how many guys would take a file to a brand new gun, but after you do a few hundred it's no bid deal....... :rolleyes:

When I first started, I only did the bottom of the pistol grip.
But it didn't take long to move on up..... :D

And how did I get started doing this?

On KNIVES of course, took old pocket knives filed them up and resold them for $50.00 a piece. :thumbup:


But doing them by hand?
Your fingers will HURT! :D:rolleyes:

Some beautiful knives shown here, how ever they were done?

Thanks for showing.
 
bigal2me said:
If you do not know about this thread? You should check it out. - :thumbup:

A little carving - sculpture going on in it...... :)



Steve Culver
ABS Master Bladesmith

Quillon Dagger WIP

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=808143&page=6




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Click to expand...

I know there are a lot of new guys here always asking how do this & that?

Well like I said - IF you have not already seen this thread do check it out - there is MORE carving & sculpturing going on. - :thumbup:

Looking good Steve.:thumbup:
 
Nick,
Thanks for chiming in with your comments.
I am also one who gets my shorts in a wad when I read a post asking for specialized information (HT, Carving, Silver wire inlay, etc.) and a slew of folks who have no experience,...and often no idea, answer with erroneous information. I am sure I know the folks you refer to. I used to make a comment when they made advice, but now just let it go unless the info is very wrong. My favorite was a thread on a specialized stainless HT and the poster gave advice on how he does his stainless. I knew that he had made less than five knives and sends the blades out for HT ( I believe to you?). Sort of makes you miss Pimpinsquee, doesn't it.

I am fully in favor of anyone with knowledge on the subject posting his advice and info.... whether they make knives or not.....but if you are just posting your impression, or what you read somewhere, then offering that as expert advice is not helpful and can mislead others.
 
I have made more than 5 knives so I hope it was not me giving bad information??

Weren't we talking about BT's awesome knives last page? I don't care how he make em they are above my pay grade one way or the other. Still nice.

TD, one of these days I will own one of your slippies, your work is great.
 
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