How does a BM compare to a Khukuri

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Feb 13, 2002
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Been thinking about this alot as the khukuri is the knife that got me into knives (if you don't count movie knives - Rambo etc.. which I think actually got me into knives before I even had a chance to think otherwise)

Anyway, I know kukuris can chop like demons as can the BM but the problem for me has always been the recurve. I know that INFI is a superior steel but I have always been impressed by HI khuk's and just wondered if anyone has done a side by side of the two. Same blade lengths etc..
 
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I dont have a HI but I do have a 18" OAL Extrema Ratio KH Kukri and a NMFBM convex edge!!! Might be fun!!,, That Kukri is so quick! but the NM is a beast!!!
 
I don't have a BM but I do have a ASH1 and currently 2 HI Khukuris. I would have to say that if your only going to get one then you are much better off with the Busse. Any busse for that matter. The Khukuri are also what got me into knives but after experimenting with them in the field I've discovered that though they are good, they won't compare to the more versatile shape of the BM which will be a superior chopper anyway.

The Khukuri is primary designed as a combat slashing blade with the deep angled recurve style edge. The angle is meant to share off against soft tissue or bone but when applied to a solid material like wood it will dramatically reduce the slice and revert to a chop which is not as efficient for the angle. Thats why you don't find any axes with angled blades. They are more efficient with the edge flat. No doubt khukuris do chop well but not as well as an axe.

The khukuri blade shape also does not allow it to chop smaller diameter branches on the ground as well. If the branch is still on the tree then you can happily chop with the sweet spot of the blade which is about midway along the blade but since it's a banana shaped blade the tip will overhang on the other side when you chop. No problems when your chopping up in the air with a branch or a human arm/neck (which it was designed for). Apply the chop to an object on the ground and you end up digging in the dirt if you chop with the sweet spot or if you use the tip, it's no longer the sweet spot so it will translate the vibrations all the way back to the handle. You need to prop up the object up onto a chopping block for it to work properly. A bit slower or not as convenient.

The Ash1 is much smaller and lighter than the Khukuri I have but (I not kidding or exaggerating) it will out chop it!! I put this down to the full flat grind and the stronger sharper edge of the Busse.

Another thing which is the biggest factor is the steel. The HI Khukuris use a soft carbon steel. They describe it as a truck spring steel that has been zone heat treated (water poured from a tea pot on the edge). My testing has shown that it's a very poor heat treating. I was chopping with my Ash1 and I accidentally hit the concrete. Very small edge denting but otherwise no problems (and it still will cut and chop without sharpening it. And I still haven't). I was chopping with my Khukuri and very lightly touched a mild steel bar. A big roll on the edge. In fact the soft pine I was chopping would also roll and dent the khukuri. I actually tap the Ash1 edge against the Khukuri edge as a small test to see what would happen. As suspected, nothing on the Busse and a nice V cut in the Khukuri. Not impressed with the Khukuri. I tried to sharpen the busse with a metal file and the file would hardly touch the metal. I did the same to the khukuri with the same file and the file would eat the metal like it was soft lead.

The handle on the Busse is much more comfortable and secure. The handle on the HI Khukuri has a traditional sharp band right in the middle of the handle which cuts into the mid point of your palm. It also isn't very secure. You can see test videos from KnifeTest.com on a Khukuri and you'll see he struggles with the handle.

Lastly the warranty on the Busse is better. Though I haven't had any problems with mine yet since it's bomb proof but I have heard from the forums that people have sorted out there warranty issues with Jerry quickly without any problems.

On the other hand, I email HI several times about the heat treating and poor quality of the Khukuri and they did acknowledge that there was a problem with my Khukuri and promised to replace it with a new shipment when they were made. After 7 months of waiting I gave up.

Perhaps this may of not been a fair assessment since the khukuri I tested against the Ash1 may of had a dodgy heat treatment but I have had three HI Khukuris over the years and tested two of them. I personally feel it's fair test.

If you have to buy a Khukuri then get an Ontario Khukuri from Brigade Quartermasters (I have one. Good 1095 steel and great value) or any from Cold Steel (I don't own but know they have much better steels. See KnifeTest.com on their Khukuri).

The busses are over twice the price of a HI Khukuri but you sure get much more than twice the performance. I still do love the Khukuri shape but for a practical user knife your better off with a BM of any form.

Trust me on this, buy a Busse.

I hope this helps. Cheers.
 
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If you want to try a kuk and don't want to spend a lotta dough, look around for one of Cold Steel's carbon ones.

They do real well on sappy, jungle type vegetation... like banana trees and such. Which is what they would be used on mostly in the jungles of Burma where they were first developed (along with food prep, etc).

Yeah, I know where you are that's not such a problem but I get to use mine plenty and I can attest to their chopping ability.

But on hard wood and the like, the BM is definitely gonna win the contest.
 
thanks for the very detailed post my friend! Some very interestings comments. I've chopped with bm-e's, never dared with my shbm and loads with khuks. Heat treat is defo lacking on khuks, I've chipped and rolled so many edges! Be interesting to see what others have to say and very interesting to see if the hogfather will ever make us a busse khuk!
 
I'm not much of a fan of Khukuris. They look nice if you favour the exotic, but really, the shape of the blade is very inefficient for many tasks. Like abchopper said, try chopping something that's on the ground with a khukuri - that won't be too fun unless what you're chopping is extremely large like a whole tree trunk. The steel is nowhere near INFI - far inferior edge holding compared to INFI, inferior toughness, inferior corrosion resistance... just plain nowhere near as good.

The weight to power ratio on khukuris absolutely sucks compared to the BMs. The larger chopping khukuris make BMs look thin and light, as they weigh a whole lot. They're not so heavy that one couldn't handle them, but the weight doesn't really do so much that it would be worth it.

And then there's the handles. Oh, the handles... some folks like them, some folks are just used to them. But I've never seen a khukuri handle that I would honestly be able to call ergonomically comfortable, much less durable. But then, I'm not an expert on khukuris. I have only owned and handled a few from various makers, it's not like I've played with hundreds of them.

But all that said: I definitely think there's a place in the world for khukuris, and they have great tradition, and I think any serious knife enthusiast should at least consider getting one. :thumbup:
 
khukuris and especially hi khuks will always have a special meaning to me. It was the first knife my wife gave me. I knew Uncle Bill quite well too and the cantina is full of A+ guys, much like the forum (and ladies)

like you say, it's all about preference!

Great comments and thanks
 
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I'm going to be something of a dissenting vote here.

First off, I'm not going to compare it to a BM of any sort, since I don't yet have one.

Second, anyone who's seen my posts on the HI or WS&S forums knows I consider a 20" kukri to be just right, and anything under 18" to be flat out disappointing in performance. If one cannot bear to carry the weight of a large kukri, then buy a different blade, a small one will not live up to the legend, and IMO is a waste of time other than as a novelty.

Third, KLOs -- Kukri Like Objects -- such as the Cold Steel, Ontario and S&W ones are bent machetes and do not give the advantages of a real kukri. You're better off with a latin-style machete, golok, or cane knife if you want what amounts to a sharpened piece of sheet metal. Any of those three will generally cost less and perform better than the KLO.

Now, some things that degrade kukri performance.
1.) Technique. Axe/hatchet technique doesn't work quite so well. One poster mentioned that you don't see the forward curve of the kukri on axes. Which is true. That's because an axe is meant to hit the wood straight on. In fact that's why you see people bend at the legs just before their axe makes contact -- it's in order to have the axe moving in a linear motion, rather than swinging in an arc at the time of impact. Using this technique with a kukri will not give good results.
The correct way is to chop on an arc, and give a little snap of the wrist just before impact. If you know how to chop well with a knife or machete, you already know what I mean. Kind of making a motion like you're lashing a whip. Now also note that not all of the kukris work gets done on the chop. The blade needs to have some "run". I.E. it not only chops the wood, it slices the fibers also. Best way to describe it is imagine two lines coming from what would be the center of the circle described by the kukri's arc running to the edge, encompassing the "sweet spot". The angle between these lines will be narrow for very hard materials, and fairly wide for soft materials. You want the initial impact of the chop to begin at the point of that arc closest to the handle, and follow through as close to the end of that arc towards the tip. So you get a sort of slicing/chopping motion.

2.)Using too light a kukri.

3.) Not prepping the blade. HI kukris come with a high shine buffed into them unless you buy a "villager" model. Some say the buffing doesn't affect the heat treat, but it does. I think they use a lot of pressure and generate way too much heat when they buff. The outer layer of metal is quite soft, and will easily roll. Since I've never gotten anything from HI that I'd call sharp, I set out to put a good edge on. First thing is to get the soft metal off. I usually just file it. Be careful as you will go from removing a good bit of metal with each stroke to the file skating with no real warning. The metal underneath is very hard. I then sharpen it with a diamond hone. I get this metal sharp enough that I can cut very soft vegetation, like flower stems, with a little flick of the wrist, and yet it doesn't chip or roll on even seasoned hardwoods.

4.) Remember they are only hardened at the sweet spot.

5.) Remember they are kept soft along most of the blade so they can be realigned with a steel -- these are made to be able to be maintained by people in a third world country that don't have an array of diamond hones or belt sanders at their disposal at home. This softer metal is just fine for game prep, food prep, etc, It's only the sweet spot that does the chopping.

As for chopping things on the ground, it works fine. Will you dull the tip when it digs into dirt? Sure, but it doesn't really matter, as you don't use that part of the blade for heavy work and it can easily be resharpened. BTW, you're going to dig the tip of your BM or part of a hatchet into the ground if you're chopping ON THE GROUND as well. This is not a design problem exclusive to the kukri. The solution is just don't chop directly on the ground.

What it comes down to is are you willing to work with the kukri to put the proper edge on it and then learn to use it? You have to adapt to the kukri, it won't adapt to you. If you aren't willing to carry the weight, then don't bother (although most who refuse to carry the weight deride the BM as an overgrown sharpened prybar that isn't a very good chopper either :rolleyes: -- I suspect they haven't tried to use one of them properly either).

Since you can get about three of the larger (20"+ OAL) kukris for what you pick up an aftermarket BM for, it's not a bad idea to try one out. Even if you end up not liking it, it makes a great conversation piece.
 
I can't speak for Ontario or S&W but I have used my CS kuk hard and it performs just fine. And its not a full size but a mini-Kukri. OAL is 17 inches and blade length is about 11,5 inches.

But with that recurve its probably about 13 in all. Believe me when I tell you this puppy can chop all day. I have mowed through plenty of vegetation with this guy and its highly effective. There's no magical qualities in the original version. Its effectiveness lies in its design, which can be copied very easily.

I believe the performance of the carbon steel and san mai models that CS produces will perform just as well as any 'authentic' kuk from the jungles of Myanmar. Probably outperform them in many cases. A lot of the WWII-era ones (when their fame started to spread far and wide) were hand-forged from truck springs anyway, under pretty primitive conditions.

Not that there's anything wrong with that, but the performance really lies in the design - top heavy for extra power when swinging. So add modern steels and heat treating methods and you've got a winner. And I'll take a kraton handle over hardwood for comfort and retention anyday. I got my mini-Kuk as a CS second, and it was one of the best buys I ever made.

What you have to remember is that kuks were designed for a jungle environment, where most of the plant matter is soft and full of water. It was intended primarily as a path clearing device, for food prep and of course, as a weapon. So relatively thin and light was the way to go. Plus, these are carried around all day by the locals, so you don't want some heavy duty chunk of steel weighing you down.

EDC002.jpg


Third, KLOs -- Kukri Like Objects -- such as the Cold Steel, Ontario and S&W ones are bent machetes and do not give the advantages of a real kukri. You're better off with a latin-style machete, golok, or cane knife if you want what amounts to a sharpened piece of sheet metal. Any of those three will generally cost less and perform better than the KLO.
 
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Having owned an HI CAK and a CS Kukri in Carbon V, I much prefer the handle ergonomics and steel used for the CS Kukri.
 
Excellent Cpl Punishment.

The kukri is basically designed for chopping and stabbing purposes as a weapon of war, but it still can be used in other household or daily tasks, such as: building or digging a furrow, to cut meat and vegetables, for chopping wood and for hacking through dense jungles and forests - serving as a combination of an axe and a machete, etc. It functions as a cross between a knife and an axe.

I have Khukuries since a long time. I love this kind of knife, in my case more as a tool than a weapon. I love to be able to realigne them with a steel. The only problem is that you're never sure about the quality. Never sure of what you get.

These twelve were mine :

himalayan20imports20khuup1.jpg


My photographic report, Oct 2002 : http://membres.lycos.fr/stephensee/


On scrapyardknives.com : Chop Off: Busse Fbm, CS Kukri, Dog Father CG :

http://www.scrapyardknives.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=167108&an=0&page=8
 
turning out to be a good thread! I think a busse khuk would be insane! It almost has to be done.
 
I've got to disagree with Cpl Punishment about one thing, HI Khukris are built of thick enough steel that I consider them useful down to 12-inch, which is about a 7-inch blade. Will the small ones be chopping machines? Absolutely not, but they are a compact, fairly inexpensive, weight to performance efficient hatchet replacement. I used a 16.5-inch Chiruwa AK to clear some Ike wind damage, and considered it quite effective, even surprisingly so (and it would have been more so if I'd sharpened it properly beforehand). Even the standard military BAS is a 15-inch model.

Granted, a 20-inch M-43/WWII/AK-class will bite even deeper (when it doesn't simply shear branches or even snap through from force of impact), but I consider 16 to 18-inch heavies to be about optimal; of course, if you're talking about a Sirupati, 20 to 25-inch is the way to go.
 
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