How important is the type of metal used on an EDC folder for the average Joe?

jackknife said:
For the average joe, I don't think the steel matters at all. Most of the rest of the worlds population are not knife nuts like on this forum. They get by very well with some very plain steel. Some of the most hard use blades on the planet are the pang's in Africa, machetes in South and Central America, and they are old fashioned 1095 or 1085 carbon steel. Look how many people get by with Chinese mystery steel folders.

I think the average joe would actually be worse off with a highly rated steel, because some day he's going to have a dull knife on his hands. A steel that is easy to re-sharpen is way better for the non-knife nut than some high end steel that is a PITA to sharpen. With a simple steel, the bottom of a coffee mug, top edge of a car window, or even a smooth rock from a creek will do the do that job of sharpening. The underside of a toilet tank can be used as well.

One of my favorite knives, the stainless Opinel uses 12C27, and I love that stuff. Cuts well, holds an edge a good amount of time, yet I can sharpen it up in a few minutes on a wide variety of things. LIfe is short, and I don't want to spend large amounts of it sitting there sharpening a knife. A few minutes to newsprint shaving and I'm done.

As far as the tool, it's always been the operator/user that makes the difference. Too many people think because they went out and bought such and such gun/knife/whatever, that they are the expert. Some inner city street guy will hand them their head using a cheap paring knife he stole from his grannies kitchen. Or a box cutter. The tool does not make the man. Never has, never will.

Edit to add; I'd be willing to bet that many of the knife nuts who quite the steel of the month specs, wouldn't actually notice a real difference if you handed them a knife with the steel unknown to them and told them to use to for a month. So much of it tis the belief of the hype.
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Soooo true Jack knife.

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I have used the following steels extensively: ATS-34, 154CM, VG-10, S30V, M390, CPM M4, CPM 10V, S90V, X15-T.N. They are all suitable for EDC use, and I have been happy with all of them. However, a few stand out. CPM 10V, S90V, M390, and CPM M4 are my favorites. Personally, I am all about edge retention. I like steels that hold a razor sharp edge for a long time. I do not do much chopping, prying, or twisting. So, toughness is not a big factor for me. That's why I lean toward these steels. CPM 10V is my favorite, and stands head and shoulders above the rest when it comes to edge retention during cutting and even some chopping. However, if you hit steel with it, it will chip (at least at the high hardness of my knife). But it is almost impervious to wear from regular cutting. S90V loses its initial razor edge quickly, but keeps a good working edge for a very long time. M390 is the closest to 10V in keeping a razor edge, so it's probably my second favorite. CPM M4 and S90V would be tied for third in my book.

To me, in edge retention, the others are, from best to worst, S30V, X15-T.N., 154CM, ATS-34, VG10. But again, I would use a VG10 knife with no questions. It works fine for EDC use, I'll just be sharpening it the most. I carried an ATS-34 knife for 15 years, every single day, before I got into knives. It worked just fine, and I never thought about needing a better steel. I really didn't even know there were so many steels or better steels. It just worked. Then, I got a 154CM knife, a VG10 knife, an X15 knife, and finally an S30V knife. It was the S30V knife (a Benchmade 940) that opened my eyes to better steel. The edge retention was noticeably better than the others, and that's the knife that got me interested in steels.

To me, it's like this: If you had a reliable Ford Taurus, and no one ever told you about Porsche, you would live a happy life driving your Taurus. After all, a car is a tool that takes you places, and your Taurus is reliable and does the job. But then you see a Porsche, and even get to drive it. Now you get car obsessed, learn about Ferrari, Bugatti, McLaren, etc. Now you want all of these cars, and want to try them all out. But you don't NEED to, because your Taurus does what you need it to. The performance difference in steels may not be as large as the car example (although with 10V it may be), but you get the idea. Any steel I named will work fine for you, as would countless others. The question is, do you want to become obsessed?

EDIT: Just saw someone else's point about sharpening. That's a great point, and something I take for granted because I've been sharpening everyone's knives for 15 years, and I'm good at it. Sharpening something like S90V or CPM 10V would be a nightmare if you don't know what you're doing and don't have good equipment. If you get steel crazy, prepare to sink some time and money into sharpening gear and skill in its use.
 
Alfazulu said:
I have used the following steels extensively: ATS-34, 154CM, VG-10, S30V, M390, CPM M4, CPM 10V, S90V, X15-T.N. They are all suitable for EDC use, and I have been happy with all of them. However, a few stand out. CPM 10V, S90V, M390, and CPM M4 are my favorites. Personally, I am all about edge retention. I like steels that hold a razor sharp edge for a long time. I do not do much chopping, prying, or twisting. So, toughness is not a big factor for me. That's why I lean toward these steels. CPM 10V is my favorite, and stands head and shoulders above the rest when it comes to edge retention during cutting and even some chopping. However, if you hit steel with it, it will chip (at least at the high hardness of my knife). But it is almost impervious to wear from regular cutting. S90V loses its initial razor edge quickly, but keeps a good working edge for a very long time. M390 is the closest to 10V in keeping a razor edge, so it's probably my second favorite. CPM M4 and S90V would be tied for third in my book.

To me, in edge retention, the others are, from best to worst, S30V, X15-T.N., 154CM, ATS-34, VG10. But again, I would use a VG10 knife with no questions. It works fine for EDC use, I'll just be sharpening it the most. I carried an ATS-34 knife for 15 years, every single day, before I got into knives. It worked just fine, and I never thought about needing a better steel. I really didn't even know there were so many steels or better steels. It just worked. Then, I got a 154CM knife, a VG10 knife, an X15 knife, and finally an S30V knife. It was the S30V knife (a Benchmade 940) that opened my eyes to better steel. The edge retention was noticeably better than the others, and that's the knife that got me interested in steels.

To me, it's like this: If you had a reliable Ford Taurus, and no one ever told you about Porsche, you would live a happy life driving your Taurus. After all, a car is a tool that takes you places, and your Taurus is reliable and does the job. But then you see a Porsche, and even get to drive it. Now you get car obsessed, learn about Ferrari, Bugatti, McLaren, etc. Now you want all of these cars, and want to try them all out. But you don't NEED to, because your Taurus does what you need it to. The performance difference in steels may not be as large as the car example (although with 10V it may be), but you get the idea. Any steel I named will work fine for you, as would countless others. The question is, do you want to become obsessed?

EDIT: Just saw someone else's point about sharpening. That's a great point, and something I take for granted because I've been sharpening everyone's knives for 15 years, and I'm good at it. Sharpening something like S90V or CPM 10V would be a nightmare if you don't know what you're doing and don't have good equipment. If you get steel crazy, prepare to sink some time and money into sharpening gear and skill in its use.
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Best answer yet. Thank you sir.

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"The guys I work with buy the least expensive knives and keep them sharp."
Quote from my father-in-law who worked in a factory.
rolf
 
realg7 said:
So I constantly hear people talking about the type of steel or metal that is used to make these knives. If you're just a regular guy looking for an EDC tactical or utility blade to use for cutting boxes or rope and maybe self-defense (God forbid) should that day ever come, is the type of metal important say at the 50-75$ range?

And what is the highest quality metal for knives in the 200-400$ range?

Again please assume that the person using these knives will rarely use it unless it's for a utility purpose.

I am a Kali practitioner and I specialize with knives. It is my professional opinion that it is not the tool that matters, but the operator....

I can find the femoral, cartoid, and jugular with a fork if I need to, why would the steel matter for tactical one time use?

In terms of box, plastic, wood, and rope cutting is there a specific steel that works best for durability?
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The important aspects of steel type are edge holding ability, corrosion resistance, and toughness relative to knives. The perfect steel in a particular price range has been very much a topic of discussion and I don't think there is one answer to that question. Most any knife steel can be sharpened for one time use such as in a self defense situation.

I personally have gotten very used to 1095 on slip joints, 1085 for machetes, and a number of steels for folding knives including VG-10. S35V, D2, and 154 CMP. There is a lot of personal preference involved and a willingness to experiment which means buying multiple knives in the various steels which can become expensive. My interest does not extend quite that far in terms of experimentation, but I do buy a number of new blades each year.
 
I can't speak for the average Joe. I suspect that he is not a knife forum reader and is probably not even a pocket knife carrier.

I don't use a knife that much in my daily life so pretty much any steel that cuts and that I can sharpen easily works for me. I have a few knives in newer steels (Elmax, 154CM, VG-10) but that's because I liked the knife and that's what steel it was made from.

Most of my frequently carried pocket knives are 420HC, 440A/C, 1095 or similar. If I did enough cutting to where I noticed a need for something better i'd move up to something with better performance for the task.

I don't carry a pocket knife with the intent of self defense so that doesn't factor into my consideration.
 
Before I really got into knives I had a rat 1 with aus 8 and loved it. It was easy to sharpen and held an edge ok (better than my sebenza), it didn't chip much so it was easy to sharpen as a beginner. I still recommend that knife to everyone who asks about what a good first knife is. Also 154cm is a good steel, but it isn't on knives as cheap as aus 8 is usually.
 
Alfazulu said:
To me, it's like this: If you had a reliable Ford Taurus, and no one ever told you about Porsche, you would live a happy life driving your Taurus. After all, a car is a tool that takes you places, and your Taurus is reliable and does the job. But then you see a Porsche, and even get to drive it. Now you get car obsessed, learn about Ferrari, Bugatti, McLaren, etc. Now you want all of these cars, and want to try them all out. But you don't NEED to, because your Taurus does what you need it to. The performance difference in steels may not be as large as the car example (although with 10V it may be), but you get the idea. Any steel I named will work fine for you, as would countless others. The question is, do you want to become obsessed?
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This is a really good analogy and to (ahem) drive it a bit further....

Porsches, Ferraris and Buattis may trip the triggers of enthusiasts but they make lousy daily drivers for the "Average Joe" who is living on an average budget with an average family, an average mortgage, average daily driving needs, and an average amount of time to devote to their car.

IMO, the fine grained steels such as 420HC, 12C27, and Aus8 for stainless or 1095, 1085 or CV for non-stainless are ideal. These steels can all be hardened up well enough to hold an edge well ENOUGH, they're tough enough to take a beating without chipping, they sharpen easily, and perhaps most importantly, they can be mass produced relatively inexpensively. These steels are the Ford F-150s and Toyota Camrys (Camri?, Camries?) of the knife steel world, IMO.

It should be emphasized that there are probably a greater percentage of car owners who have the technical ability to change their own oil than there are knife owners who can free hand sharpen a knife. At best, the "Average Joe's" knife will only see an occasional pull through sharpener.

FWIW, these are the kinds of steels I prefer for EDC. If I needed to regularly cut down cardboard or other highly abrasive material as a part of my work, I would consider a more carbide rich steel.
 
Well you can cut a stick and use it to play baseball or golf. How many average Joe baseball or golf players could tell the difference between one stick and another, or between a stick made out of one material and a stick made out of another material? All of them will hit the ball and make it move.

I think it is the same way with knives.
 
I don't think an Average Joe can make the difference between 440C and S30V.

Buy what you like and what you can afford, and what best suit your needs (H2 instead of D2 if you're by the sea...)
 
As many have said here, for SD what matters most is A. Mentality, B. Training and preparedness, C. Fitness, D. The tool
That being said, I carry a blade with defensive purposes (no guns in my country) and I value corrosion resistance (knife is IWB, or you sweat all over it, it rains, etc.), toughness and the ability to take a very sharp edge very easily, especially if you train and cut with the blade you carry, so you can always have it razor sharp should the need arise.

So, in my case, favorites are 440A or C, like in the Hissatsu

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AUS8, VG1 and CTS-BD1, like in the Voyagers, Recons, Hold Outs, Rajahs...

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H1 steel like the one in Spyderco's Salt series

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and CTS-XHP, a bit of an upgrade here, but easy to sharpen to ultra sharp, keen edge

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420HC, 12C27 or 8Cr13MoV like in Spyderc's Byrd series, Cold Steel fixed blades, Leatherman blades, Buck and Gerber products...

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Most of these are in the rather inexpensive and average range, and would be fine for occasional cutting, slicing, and EDC tasks than the average Joe might encounter on a daily basis.
 
Before I found BF and got addicted, I barely got by with my AUS 8 Endura. Even though I was not a knife nut then, I felt like the steel was not that great because there were chips in the serrations and tip. Anything VG10 and up is good with me now, S30V is preferable but still kind of hard for me to sharpen.
 
It really depends on your sharpening ability and preferences.

I suck at sharpening, so for me, a premium or "super" steel is preferred due to the longer edge retention. I send my knives out to be sharpened, I'm so bad.

If you are good at and/or enjoy sharpening, you can get by with a lesser steel.

I don't have much long term experence with the really high end steel, except CPM-M4, which is great.

My favorite is CTS-XHP, followed by CPM-S35VN.

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I went through the "I have to try the next greatest steel phase"

What I learned is that I really like three blade steels:

CPM154/154CM ~ S35Vn ~ CPM3V

Reasons:

They all take and hold a very predictable edge, and what I mean by that word (there's probably a better word) is that I like these edges at 600G, both in terms of how they cut/slice, and how they handle harder use.

As someone who likes to sharpen, I also am very comfortable with the edge retention on these 3 steels.

To the point!

It's important if you understand what you like and dislike about steel, and those traits impact the way you use a knife.
 
I don't think your "average Joe" knows or cares about the latest greatest alphabet super steel and sees no reason to spend more than $50 for a pocket knife. Your average Joe, though he may not know it, is more concerned about the heat treat or in his terms, how long does it holds an edge, will it chip or break if he uses the tip on a screw, and how easy is it to sharpen on his only stone, an old broken Arkansas soft that belonged to his father. I don't think he would know the difference between powdered and forged nor would he care as long is his knife cut the stuff he needs cut. I think the only thing a regular non-knife nut Joe knows about steel is if it will rust or is it stainless.

Once you start spending $200 on a knife you are no longer an average Joe, you have fallen into the rabbit hole. :)
 
There are two broad categories for steel: stainless and carbon. Stainless steel resists rust very well but it can dull easily. Carbon steel keeps an edge really well but it rusts easily. Most mass produced steels are somewhere in between.

However, if you read the marketing on knives, it’ll talk about how the steel used to make a certain knife is very “special” compared to others on the market. Don’t be fool. Almost all steel used for knives come from a handful of steel suppliers. This rule applies to US as well as foreign knives.*Most knife makers temper the steel to added additional qualities but it won’t drastically change the steel’s properties.
 
wensynch said:
...Stainless steel resists rust very well but it can dull easily. Carbon steel keeps an edge really well but it rusts easily. Most mass produced steels are somewhere in between.
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Where are you coming up with this stuff?
 
"Two broad categories......" Say what? Just gonna back away from the thread now. Strap in. Keep your hands and feet inside the ride at all times.
 
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