How important is the type of metal used on an EDC folder for the average Joe?

The truth is, most anyone using a knife will be best served by the Rosta-free steel from Jamaica. It's forged by Rastafarian smiths deep in the mountains of Jamaica, mon, and given secret herb tempering. Butchering chickens, use the rosta-free steel, mon. Carving up the pulled pork, rostafree does it best. Only from Jamaica, if you have the right connections. :thumbup:
 
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The average person's eyes glaze over when you start spewing steel designations. They just want it to work better. But the average person these days also doesn't even know how to properly sharpen a knife, and even knife nuts wouldn't be able to ID specific steels by performance in use between otherwise identical knives--they could probably tell you what broad category the steel belongs to, but that's about it. In my general opinion, specific steel is one of the last things that should be considered in a knife.

The general class of steel, heat treatment, geometry, ergonomics, means of carry, etc. are all far more important than the specific steel. Most folks would be served best by a humdrum basic cutlery steel with good heat treatment in a knife with a blade geometry and ergonomics optimized for their work.
 
trevitrace said:
Where are you coming up with this stuff?
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http://www.knifeup.com/what-is-aus-8a-steel/

Yes, I'm aware carbon steel of today is pretty damn stain resistant.

I still think it's okay to say carbon typical properties includes it being really easy to rust in terms of general statement about steel and it's fairly common to hear. Getting hung up on on "really" is just kinda me, to me.

Point I liked is really the 2d paragraph which didn't seem complete without bringing about the first.
 
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I am the average joe, using an EDC knife. Ok, maybe slightly above average, but far from the collector/enthusiast that most on BF are. Until a few months ago, I thought Benchmade, ZT, and one or two others were the high-end of high end knives. My price point for a good EDC is $75-$100 (like I said, slightly above average).


For most of us 'average' EDC guys, type of steel doesn't really matter. A knife is a tool, first and foremost. It needs to feel right in our hand, work well at its job, and be reliable. We see them the same as we see a good wrench. I don't buy Snap-On, Mac, or Matco for the toolbox in the garage, but I don't buy Harbor Fright either - at least not for the ones I use regularly. I don't pay particular attention to the steel in my knives any more than I do the Craftsmans in my toolbox.

Does it need to be a decent steel? Of course. Do I care if it's the newest wonder steel? Not one bit. I just want it to work when I need it too. If I have to sharpen it every once in a while, so be it.

Almost everyone I know carries a folder clipped in their pocket. Whether it's the carpenters in the shop at work, the guys working the racetrack with me, my shooting buddies, or my friends and family out playing in the woods - we've all got one on us. And most of them couldn't tell you an Emerson from a Benchmade. If they can't find it at a box store, gun shop, or outdoor supplier, they've never heard of it. So they don't care what the steel is, as long as it'll cut (and occasionally pry). It's a tool, and one we're gonna abuse.


Oh, and we don't even think about it for self defense. Firearms work much better, and D-cell Maglights hurt more up close.
 
I don't use my knives for a "tactical" purpose at all, none what so ever. It is a tool to me, but I could imagine the steel not being very important. Steel may not matter much to a 9-5 office average joe, but for people who use their knives a lot, may find a better steel have the advantage. Just depends on you job and hobbies. Everyone has different things going on in their lives!

My custom machetes are one of the best, most useful blades I have bought. Extremely useful EDC's. As for my folders, I like a great all around stainless or carbon(on dry days). A high performance steel to me means it holds a great edge, but also sharpens very easily. It is well worth the money in my mind to have those two qualities in combination! Toughness is essential for the machetes too.

It is a great time to be into knives, so many great steels to choose from!! My favorite steels now are - M390/ 20CV/ 204P, S90V, PD1, CPM 3V, AEB L, K390, CPM 10V, CPM 154. S110v with a good HT, can be a bad performer with a not so good HT. All of these have to have a good HT and edge geo.
One non steel metal that I am very fond of is Stellite 6K, but that is spendy.

It is a great time to be into knives, so many great steels to choose from!!
 
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Even the office Joe might want a knife which with his limited use he has to sharpen every 20 years instead of every 2.
 
wensynch said:
http://www.knifeup.com/what-is-aus-8a-steel/

Yes, I'm aware carbon steel of today is pretty damn stain resistant.

I still think it's okay to say carbon typical properties includes it being really easy to rust in terms of general statement about steel and it's fairly common to hear. Getting hung up on on "really" is just kinda me, to me.

Point I liked is really the 2d paragraph which didn't seem complete without bringing about the first.
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Oh yeah, that site is chock full of useful.

This was on a different page:

What to Look for a Pocket Knife

"...If you are planning on using it for hunting, you will need a different knife than if you were planning on using it for everyday carry."

Never knew that. :rolleyes:
 
Given all other variables (profile, geometry, etc) are equal & good, which includes good ht.

For an average no-sharpening skills user, steels with 14+% carbide volume and 2+um in dia work better than low/no carbide steels. Once the apex is 10+um wide, protruding large carbides enable the edge to keep on cutting (um micro sawing). Rounded edge of low/no carbide steels will glide/skid, chopping is the only functional option.

Average user with adequate sharpening skills (e.g. know how to hold a decent wobbly angle at low grit) - steel type doesn't matter much in EDC usage. However sharpening experience could quickly turns into frustration with high VC volume steels. If dull is default mode of use, go to the choice above.
 
Hey Realg7 , good question if a bit confusing !?

Your various super steels are nice if you got the money to burn . But today's wonder steel is tomorrow's big yawn for those concerned with possessing the bleeding edge of technology . Mostly about bling and bragging rights .

I do have a few high end knives with various expensive steels and other fine materials with excellent finish . Ironically , these knives are way too expensive and pretty to actually USE ! They are my "fondlers" . Works of art . Safe queens .

There are special applications that might actually justify extreme high end steels -but nothing that "average Joe " has to contend with .

For me ,at least , my utility EDC needs to be a "beater " . I have a Ganzo G723 that's just 440C but done right. Cost me all of $16 delivered .

I have used and abused and even tried throwing my Ganzo into an old piece of plywood . No damage beyond cosmetic that wasn't easy to fix.

Very good corrosion resistance and plenty good for any average type EDC chore . And if it gets lost , stolen or somehow damaged by prying , digging or other abuse - no worries !

My SD/ emergency knife is kept on my other side and is not to be used except for THAT . So is always factory sharp and ready .

The steel for SD is even less critical .

Most everything else is a matter of taste or hype and BS to sell stuff . But it's your $$$$$ !
 
jackknife said:
LIfe is short, and I don't want to spend large amounts of it sitting there sharpening a knife.
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Hah — I find that when I've got downtime, and I'm sitting around relaxing, I often wind up with a knife in my hand, and a strop in the other, stropping away idly at that day's knife. I find it meditative, like some folks find knitting. A good pint of stout, a good movie (or a bonfire), and a knife to strop. Good times.
 
Philosophical ponderings about whether the steel matters or not aside, I'm becoming a big fan of 3v, and I've been a fan of tool steels for a while (in fixed blades). The former takes and holds an edge for as long as I want it to, and generally doesn't seem to chip or take edge damage like my s30v knives do. I like s30v just fine for edge holding, and my main EDC has been an s30v folder for going on a decade now (a ritter mini griptillian with aftermarket g10 Wilkins scales), but whenever I've taken it beyond slicing through clean materials into messier/dirtier/heavier use, it's often taken some minor edge damage, and more often than not that means micro-chips (and not the silicon kind). I've heard that other makers (spyderco, chris reeve, etc.) have a better heat treat than benchmade does (did?) on s30v, so that could be a factor. I'm not alone, though, in thinking it's chippy — that's why S35Vn was created.

That was a learning curve, and forced me to get into better sharpening materials, as s30v is harder to take care of with simpler abrasives in my experience. I've had some VG-10 as well, and it's had similar behaviour at the edge, but without the advantage in overall wear resistance that s30v brings to the table. Easier to sharpen out, though.

I've had a few knives in Elmax too, and overall I really prefer that steel to S30V. I use a scrapmax 460 (scrapyard knives slicer in elmax) in the kitchen, and it takes a wicked edge, and hangs onto it. None of the chipping I get with S30v, even with repeatedly driving it into cutting boards, bones, packaging, etc. And that's on a really thin blade geometry. Had a ZT 560 in elmax too, and that knife could take some abuse and not turn up edge damage (thicker geometry though), while staying sharp. You could definitely say that I'm a fan. Sharpens easier, I think, than S30V too.

I hear CPM154 (not to be confused with 154CM) is superb too. Lots of folks like that one for an all around EDC 'do anything' blade steel.

For my purposes, if I ever lose my Ritter, I'll probably be on the lookout for a new folder in 3V, just because. Not too common, but not non-existent either. Failing that, I'd be looking for something in Elmax, CPM154, maybe bohler m390.
 
If you can sharpen, almost no importance.

Most modern folding knives have decent steel, so what if they dull? We're knife enthusiasts and should know how to sharpen a knife anyways.

Even a cheap knock off knife will cut materials. I have a cheap $5 tobacco store knife that will cut for days without fatigue. $5
 
For an average Joe who just needs a non work edc cutting tool ( a utility knife is the best work knife ), then I don't think a so called super steel is truly a necessity.
Most people will be perfectly fine with something like Buck's 420hc, a good aus8, or 1095 as they all hold an edge reasonably well and take said edge quickly and easily. The Victorinox stainless is also a great option and I've never had or heard one single complaint about edge retention because vic fans are smart enough to take it for what it is and also use their knives properly.
 
Sometime I feel steel is overrated. Overall design, blade geometry, ergonomic, overall aesthetic and heat treatment is far more importance than steel type.

440b from the experienced maker who really know what he doing is far better as a knife than many tacticool blade in newest super steel.
 
realg7 said:
... If you're just a regular guy looking for an EDC tactical or utility blade to use for cutting boxes or rope and maybe self-defense (God forbid) should that day ever come, is the type of metal important say at the 50-75$ range?
...
And what is the highest quality metal for knives in the 200-400$ range?
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Hi. For me it’s not so important for my EDC use. And it’s not a matter of price only. I run an average of 50 cuts per day on various media, from different packaging materials (cardboard, plastic, EPS, etc.), to food, from various types of cordage to wood. I can’t tell the difference today when cutting with a 440C or an M390. I have different steels I carry with a weekly rotation and, for me, the “cutting” it’s just the same, if the tool is properly sharp. Maintenance and sharpening it’s a different thing, I can appreciate some differences there.

I maintain these steel discussions are just an educated and civilized pass-time, when it comes to real or supposed cutting performances of different steels for recreational use of sporting knives :). Generally, just for fun, I always compare these to the discussions of enthusiasts around wines :): I know a lot of great sommeliers in front of labelled wines, feel the liquorice after taste here, wild berries fragrance there, the marl limestone lands bite, etc. The real fun begins with blind taste… :D Different ball game for industrial cutting tools. Then it makes a lot of sense discussing cutting performances!


jackknife said:
... I think the average joe would actually be worse off with a highly rated steel, because some day he's going to have a dull knife on his hands. A steel that is easy to re-sharpen is way better for the non-knife nut than some high end steel that is a PITA to sharpen. With a simple steel, the bottom of a coffee mug, top edge of a car window, or even a smooth rock from a creek will do the do that job of sharpening. The underside of a toilet tank can be used as well...
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Alfazulu said:
EDIT: Just saw someone else's point about sharpening. That's a great point, and something I take for granted because I've been sharpening everyone's knives for 15 years, and I'm good at it. Sharpening something like S90V or CPM 10V would be a nightmare if you don't know what you're doing and don't have good equipment. If you get steel crazy, prepare to sink some time and money into sharpening gear and skill in its use.
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This is actually very true and, for me, this is the key issue. I have recently sharpened a Niolox blade and it was a pain in the … was quite difficult :). Yes, maybe it held its edge for longer time, but, for me, the “trade-off” when compared to e.g. a 440C blade isn’t that worth. I consider myself an Average Joe, a knife hobbyist and a week-end hiker. I use my knives and, for me, maintenance became something to really consider before buying this or that, both in terms of skills, time to dedicate and needed equipment. If I need a 200 EUR sharpener to sharpen a 200 EUR knife, then, for me, the knife total cost is 400 EUR. This, for me, could be a deal-breaker. Pity these infos are generally rather “hidden” behind the allure and glamour of the newest, coolest steel of the month. But of course, as a knife hobbyist, I like to try new things out in the field :). That’s part of the fun :)!
 
I was never happy with 420HC, since it required too frequent sharpening, even with light use. I have a relatively soft Case penknife in "surgical steel" that A bottom line for me would depend on use, but I am OK with 440C if done well. I normally want at least the edge holding of something like VG10 or 154CM, but I really like S35V or XHP.
I wouldn't go near a blade that is low carbon steel under the carbon level of 5160 (.6%), and would reserve 1070 or 1084 carbon steels for larger blades. There are lots of knives out there that really require sharpening after every use. I have an old knife that is in 12C27, and it is on the soft side. It was a pre made blade that was handled by a knife maker. He told me to sharpen it before each use, and that was good advice. I would stay away from any knife that requires sharpening after each use. I have some old kitchen knives like this, and really prefer steels with better edge retention.
 
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