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The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
How long do you have to wait for a custom blade before you qualify as an idiot?
- Thread starter Osbourn
- Start date
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2000
- Messages
- 631
Oz, i certinly feel for you, and i admire your patience in waiting for 8 years. I think this would definetly qualify as something to post in the Good, bad and ugly forum.
One thing i do note..... The ammount of coarse language used in this thread. Now, it doesn't offend me, at all, but it will offend some people, and it does seem slightly unnecessary. We have a diverse range of people here, and i think we need to reflect that in our choice of words. There are other ways to express anger or dissapointment, some more effective.
James
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The beast we are, lest the beast we become.
One thing i do note..... The ammount of coarse language used in this thread. Now, it doesn't offend me, at all, but it will offend some people, and it does seem slightly unnecessary. We have a diverse range of people here, and i think we need to reflect that in our choice of words. There are other ways to express anger or dissapointment, some more effective.
James
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The beast we are, lest the beast we become.
- Joined
- Nov 6, 1999
- Messages
- 2,639
And someone said James was a teenager. I knew it wasn't true
I sure hope this isn't another case of (whiney voice)...but my work is worth so much more Now than it was then.
Makers must honor their obligations or face the consequences. One of those consequences is legitimately the tarnishment of their reputation. The facts will speak for themselves. Nothing else is necessary.
Why don't you email or snail mail this thread to the 'maker', Osbourn? Tell him he is going to be Named if he doesn't find a way to correct this situation. Maybe he will wake up.
Paracelsus, noticing that this thread WAS in the WC forum where coarse language is pretty much the norm. I don't how this thread found its way into General.
[This message has been edited by Paracelsus (edited 08-04-2000).]
I sure hope this isn't another case of (whiney voice)...but my work is worth so much more Now than it was then.
Makers must honor their obligations or face the consequences. One of those consequences is legitimately the tarnishment of their reputation. The facts will speak for themselves. Nothing else is necessary.
Why don't you email or snail mail this thread to the 'maker', Osbourn? Tell him he is going to be Named if he doesn't find a way to correct this situation. Maybe he will wake up.
Paracelsus, noticing that this thread WAS in the WC forum where coarse language is pretty much the norm. I don't how this thread found its way into General.
[This message has been edited by Paracelsus (edited 08-04-2000).]
- Joined
- Jun 27, 1999
- Messages
- 804
James, I actually considered my bringing this situation out to be whining on my part, so I did originally post it in Whine and Cheese, hence the course language. I'll see if I can edit it to censor myself a bit better for public consumption. My guess is that it was moved to the general forum because one of the moderators thought it would do a bit more good to the public if it was seen by more.
One point against me, though. I was warned by a competitor of this maker that he had a tendancy so take a long time, but I didn't put much stock in these claims since they were from his competition, and I was honestly a fan of his work. Now I know to listen a bit better.
Good detective work, Blilious. I'm impressed. :>
The last time I spoke with him was about six months ago, and he said to email him the order again, as he had forgotten it, and he would send them out. I sent that email the next day, and the only response I've gotten from him was from his autoresponder. I've tried calling him a few times since, but no answer. I'll write him another email right now, and give him a call tonight and let you know tomorrow if I get through or not.
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Oz
"Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken!"
http://www.freespeech.org/oz/
One point against me, though. I was warned by a competitor of this maker that he had a tendancy so take a long time, but I didn't put much stock in these claims since they were from his competition, and I was honestly a fan of his work. Now I know to listen a bit better.
Good detective work, Blilious. I'm impressed. :>
The last time I spoke with him was about six months ago, and he said to email him the order again, as he had forgotten it, and he would send them out. I sent that email the next day, and the only response I've gotten from him was from his autoresponder. I've tried calling him a few times since, but no answer. I'll write him another email right now, and give him a call tonight and let you know tomorrow if I get through or not.
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Oz
"Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken!"
http://www.freespeech.org/oz/
I'd definitely suggest keeping on trying to contact the maker. I wouldn't ruin whatever's left of his name without running it by him first so it's not like a back stab. Albiet, it has been a long time, and if he continues to inhibit communication and refuses to agree on a rock solid delivery date, book him.
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You could put nacho cheese sauce on it...
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You could put nacho cheese sauce on it...
- Joined
- Oct 7, 1998
- Messages
- 1,838
SUE him?? Don't make me laugh. It isn't possible, in my experience.
I sent two firearms to a gunsmith with a good reputation in Huntsville, Alabama. I bought a third from him, and he was to do work on all three, for which I had partially paid in advance. He went belly up, lost his BATF license, and I checked into suing him to recover.
The Alabama lawyer said save your money. The guy probably doesn't have anything; his house is mortgaged to the hilt, and you will never get any money back, and your guns are long gone.
But wait, you say, these are GUNS, and are regulated by what is now called the ATF; surely THEY would intervene and track down this stolen property for me; after all, you have to REGISTER the things, right??
WRONG! The ATF agent said that there was nothing they could do; I got the definite opinion that he was not interested in the least about this. Despite three firearms disappearing off the ATF tracking system.
So, you are still going to sue the turkey? You might not be able to. The statute of limitations on fraud varies, but is generally a few years (it was two years in this instance). The clock starts running when it becomes apparent to you that you are being defrauded. You would need to send this guy a letter saying that you think you are being defrauded, and to please return your money and whatever else you sent him, THEN FOLLOW IT UP with a suit within the statute of limitations, to stand a chance of recovery. As it stands now, I suspect (I am a doctor, not a lawyer) that a good argument could be made that a reasonable person would have realized he was being defrauded long before this. Therefore, the statute of limitations may have run out.
And here you thought that laws made sense, the ATF was interested in tracking firearms, and you could sue someone in another state. Remember the adage, 'Good judgement is the result of experience; and experience, well, it is often the result of poor judgement.'
Walt
I sent two firearms to a gunsmith with a good reputation in Huntsville, Alabama. I bought a third from him, and he was to do work on all three, for which I had partially paid in advance. He went belly up, lost his BATF license, and I checked into suing him to recover.
The Alabama lawyer said save your money. The guy probably doesn't have anything; his house is mortgaged to the hilt, and you will never get any money back, and your guns are long gone.
But wait, you say, these are GUNS, and are regulated by what is now called the ATF; surely THEY would intervene and track down this stolen property for me; after all, you have to REGISTER the things, right??
WRONG! The ATF agent said that there was nothing they could do; I got the definite opinion that he was not interested in the least about this. Despite three firearms disappearing off the ATF tracking system.
So, you are still going to sue the turkey? You might not be able to. The statute of limitations on fraud varies, but is generally a few years (it was two years in this instance). The clock starts running when it becomes apparent to you that you are being defrauded. You would need to send this guy a letter saying that you think you are being defrauded, and to please return your money and whatever else you sent him, THEN FOLLOW IT UP with a suit within the statute of limitations, to stand a chance of recovery. As it stands now, I suspect (I am a doctor, not a lawyer) that a good argument could be made that a reasonable person would have realized he was being defrauded long before this. Therefore, the statute of limitations may have run out.
And here you thought that laws made sense, the ATF was interested in tracking firearms, and you could sue someone in another state. Remember the adage, 'Good judgement is the result of experience; and experience, well, it is often the result of poor judgement.'
Walt
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2000
- Messages
- 625
For future use, reputable custom knife makers generally start out requesting a small deposit($50-$100) and as thier success builds and their waiting list increases they do away with the deposit entierly. They only want payment when the knife is ready to ship. I would not do business from someone who wanted the full amount as a deposit. If you have been waiting 8 years, you certainly are entitled to a full refund uncluding the cost of the material you supplied. You need to make a decision on whether you want to post the guys name. I would like to know his name.
As a lawyer, I can say that you want to avoid us at all costs, because it generally costs all. BUT - if this guy is determined to shaft you, at least you can smear his reputation as loudly and publicly as possible - that's not a good thing for a businessman, and powerful incentive for him to meet his end of the bargain. SO, the idea of sending him a letter certified mail, return receipt requested (and you can specify that only HE can sign for it) is a very good one. In that letter you need to set out the details of the deal, what you paid and when, how many times you have contacted him, what was said, and your inability to contact him lately despite several attempts. Finish up with "I understand that you have had difficulties completing the knives, but at this point, after waiting eight years, in order to preserve my legal rights I am alerting you that I expect you to furnish the items that I have paid for within the next six months."
At the bottom of the letter that you send, write "sent via United States Post, certified mail number [fill in number]" and sign it. Keep a copy of the letter, and the green card that you get back with his signature.
THEN, if he still won't pony up, you can sue him - you can go to small claims court if the value is under $3,000, I think, and not need a lawyer. This is a formality, because the real weapon you have is that you can write to every knife forum and every knife magazine, listing your lawsuit and the reason for it. Whining is whining, but a lawsuit is NEWS. THAT is the kind of publicity NO ONE wants, and unless he publicly makes good with you it should hurt pretty bad. Especially if everyone on this forum then writes a letter saying "wow, I was going to order a knife from you, but after hearing about the lawsuit I guess I will go to [insert other maker here] instead."
Or we could just pound him.
Good Luck!
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The beatings will continue until morale improves.
At the bottom of the letter that you send, write "sent via United States Post, certified mail number [fill in number]" and sign it. Keep a copy of the letter, and the green card that you get back with his signature.
THEN, if he still won't pony up, you can sue him - you can go to small claims court if the value is under $3,000, I think, and not need a lawyer. This is a formality, because the real weapon you have is that you can write to every knife forum and every knife magazine, listing your lawsuit and the reason for it. Whining is whining, but a lawsuit is NEWS. THAT is the kind of publicity NO ONE wants, and unless he publicly makes good with you it should hurt pretty bad. Especially if everyone on this forum then writes a letter saying "wow, I was going to order a knife from you, but after hearing about the lawsuit I guess I will go to [insert other maker here] instead."
Or we could just pound him.
Good Luck!
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The beatings will continue until morale improves.
- Joined
- Nov 6, 1999
- Messages
- 2,639
Interesting. A guy claiming to be a lawyer advocating an aggravated assault.
But maybe fishface is just looking for new clients
Actually, that sounds like a great plan. Give him six months to settle up with you. But out his name if you don't come to some understanding within the next two weeks.
I can sort of understand the possibility that the maker really did forget the order, or lose the paperwork. You may have been far to nice and waited too long to try and find out what was going on. But he still has an obligation to you that he Must fulfill. There is no reason at all that he should not be able to respond to a reasonable request for a timely conclusion to this affair within the next couple of weeks. If he doesn't, start posting and writing letters.
Forget about the personal assault thing. Public execution is the right thing to do. Just grant him a little time for appeal.
Paracelsus
But maybe fishface is just looking for new clients
Actually, that sounds like a great plan. Give him six months to settle up with you. But out his name if you don't come to some understanding within the next two weeks.
I can sort of understand the possibility that the maker really did forget the order, or lose the paperwork. You may have been far to nice and waited too long to try and find out what was going on. But he still has an obligation to you that he Must fulfill. There is no reason at all that he should not be able to respond to a reasonable request for a timely conclusion to this affair within the next couple of weeks. If he doesn't, start posting and writing letters.
Forget about the personal assault thing. Public execution is the right thing to do. Just grant him a little time for appeal.
Paracelsus
yes...the internet has made the world a very small place...10 years ago the guy would have just been another loser...but NOW.. we can all find out WHO the loser is and AVOID him at all costs.....plus....you gotta believe hes going to find out about this.. bad press is something that is hard to live down..........PUBLISH HIS NAME BELOW!!!! i hope its not me
If he is a member of the Knifemakers' Guild, then they can and will put pressure on him to make good.
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A.T.
http://www.customknives.com
AKTI #476
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A.T.
http://www.customknives.com
AKTI #476
- Joined
- Jun 27, 1999
- Messages
- 804
Quickie update, still no contact from him. I tried calling him three times over the weekend, no answer.
At this point, I still want the blades. My fear the entire time, and one of the reasons that I've been so patient, is that he may not have been happy in the original deal, since I think I came out ahead in it. (It was awful nice mahogany, though).
The deal was for five daggers and a sword, I gave him four planks of mahogany and $200.00. Two daggers have been delivered, and the last I spoke with him, around six months ago, he voiced the intention to deliver the rest. We've generally been in contact annually or so, but I really get the feeling that I'm being avoided. At this point I can't justify it to myself to publicly execute him, since he did voice the intention of following through, and even mentioned an extra blade at one point for my patience, but if anyone wants to know his name, please email me @ osbourn_hrothgarson@yahoo.com .
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Oz
"Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken!"
http://www.freespeech.org/oz/
[This message has been edited by Osbourn (edited 08-07-2000).]
At this point, I still want the blades. My fear the entire time, and one of the reasons that I've been so patient, is that he may not have been happy in the original deal, since I think I came out ahead in it. (It was awful nice mahogany, though).
The deal was for five daggers and a sword, I gave him four planks of mahogany and $200.00. Two daggers have been delivered, and the last I spoke with him, around six months ago, he voiced the intention to deliver the rest. We've generally been in contact annually or so, but I really get the feeling that I'm being avoided. At this point I can't justify it to myself to publicly execute him, since he did voice the intention of following through, and even mentioned an extra blade at one point for my patience, but if anyone wants to know his name, please email me @ osbourn_hrothgarson@yahoo.com .
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Oz
"Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken!"
http://www.freespeech.org/oz/
[This message has been edited by Osbourn (edited 08-07-2000).]
Do you really want an answer to your original question or was that just rhetorical?
If not rhetorical, then the answer is: yes, you qualify!
Just kidding. Oz, you are undoubtedly a "nice guy" and a trusting soul and usually being one myself, I've also been caught up in these kinds of situations. I once sold a motorcycle to a guy who never paid me a cent. I waited forever and finally went over to his house and just took it. I felt pretty stupid about the whole deal, especially when everyone in his family told me I was stupid for trusting this guy at all. Oh well...
I noticed you are not willing to publish his name openly. Again, it's that nice guy thing kicking in. Don't be so nice, Oz. You owe this person diddly squat. His treatment of you shows he earns any damage to his reputation you could do. I mean, 8 years!!!??? Was it really 8 years????
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Hoodoo
And so, to all outdoor folks, the knife is the most important item of equipment.
Ellsworth Jaeger - Wildwood Wisdom
If not rhetorical, then the answer is: yes, you qualify!
Just kidding. Oz, you are undoubtedly a "nice guy" and a trusting soul and usually being one myself, I've also been caught up in these kinds of situations. I once sold a motorcycle to a guy who never paid me a cent. I waited forever and finally went over to his house and just took it. I felt pretty stupid about the whole deal, especially when everyone in his family told me I was stupid for trusting this guy at all. Oh well...
I noticed you are not willing to publish his name openly. Again, it's that nice guy thing kicking in. Don't be so nice, Oz. You owe this person diddly squat. His treatment of you shows he earns any damage to his reputation you could do. I mean, 8 years!!!??? Was it really 8 years????
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Hoodoo
And so, to all outdoor folks, the knife is the most important item of equipment.
Ellsworth Jaeger - Wildwood Wisdom
- Joined
- Aug 11, 1999
- Messages
- 1,111
I'm not sure if Danbo's "author" is the maker in question, but I think he's on the right track.
Osbourn,
Is the issue here really about being nice to this guy, or about fear of the repercussions of outing one of the gods? If so, then your situation is indeed very delicate. Either way, whatever you choose to do, you will be on the right side of the fence in my book.
... On the other hand, if it's Tom Mayo, you might as well just say so.
Glen
Osbourn,
Is the issue here really about being nice to this guy, or about fear of the repercussions of outing one of the gods? If so, then your situation is indeed very delicate. Either way, whatever you choose to do, you will be on the right side of the fence in my book.
... On the other hand, if it's Tom Mayo, you might as well just say so.
Glen
- Joined
- Jun 27, 1999
- Messages
- 804
Jerry said to say it's Tom.
Seriously, I don't know about the authorship of this maker, but I have noticed updates to his website with new products, right in the middle of times when he was unavailable. That's where I get the feeling that I'm maybe being intentionally avoided.
As for "outing" someone, it's the reputation of someone I considered a friend that concerns me. That's what makes that feeling of being avoided that much more troublesome.
[SNIFF] (I promised myself I wouldn't cry)
Anyway, I'll start emailing the bastid on a more regular basis. If I keep getting no response, you'll see his name in Good Bad and Ugly.
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Oz
"Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken!"
http://www.freespeech.org/oz/
[This message has been edited by Osbourn (edited 08-09-2000).]
Seriously, I don't know about the authorship of this maker, but I have noticed updates to his website with new products, right in the middle of times when he was unavailable. That's where I get the feeling that I'm maybe being intentionally avoided.
As for "outing" someone, it's the reputation of someone I considered a friend that concerns me. That's what makes that feeling of being avoided that much more troublesome.
[SNIFF] (I promised myself I wouldn't cry)
Anyway, I'll start emailing the bastid on a more regular basis. If I keep getting no response, you'll see his name in Good Bad and Ugly.
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Oz
"Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken!"
http://www.freespeech.org/oz/
[This message has been edited by Osbourn (edited 08-09-2000).]