How long does it take to get good at grinding bevels?

Bob Ohlemann

Bob Ohlemann

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Dec 5, 2013
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As a new knifemaker but experienced metal worker, I am finding grinding the bevels to be the most challenging part to learn. It probably doesn't help that my eyes are not in great shape. I would like to get a consensus on how long it should take to get proficient at grinding bevels. Hollow and flat grinds. I'm talking good enough to go from grinding the bevels down to a finishing grit and straight to sharpening. I understand that there are a lot of variables in there but I'm just talking about developing good bevel grinding technique. How many blades does it realistically take to become competent?

Bob
 
Im new to making as well. Ive been trying and keep making mistakes. Im just trying to find the correct way to make a jig for it. Its safe to say ive messed up more than ive completed. I then use my mistakes to test my heat treat process. Every mistake come with another thing to learn. So far ive tried bevels freehand on 6 blanks of 1084. Not happy with any of them.
 
I seriously doubt there's one answer for that question. Every journey is as different as the pilgrims on the journey. Some will take shortcuts (e.g. jigs). Some will work harder than others (12 hours a day, 7 days a week instead of a couple of hours whenever I feel like it).

I read on the forum somewhere that developing muscle memory takes 3000 repititions the the same thing to get the muscles locked in to doing it right. I have no idea where that number comes from or how valid it is. All I know is I still don't have it. And I don't expect that anyone could possibly tell me how long it will take using my equipment, doing things in my spare time, and doing it without the aid of training or mentoring.
 
10,000 hours is the usual number thrown around for mastery of a thing. But I think that's usually for something like the larger scale enterprise of knifemaking as a whole, not just a part of it. Technical competence is a much lower bar, so just pay close attention and keep grinding until it's in the muscle memory.
 
From my limited experiences so far, steadiness and consistency is the thing. Stay as consistent as possible with speed, angle, and pressure. And, the slower you take it, the more of a sense you can get for how holding a blade in a particular way will end up removing metal. And taking it one step at a time is probably a good idea. I'm still working on flat grinds, and don't do much with hollow grinding, although I've been thinking about giving it a go on a dagger that I've got roughed out.
 
For me a Jig is my best friend. This is my 5th knife, the reason I took the picture was because of the grind. It’s not close to being done in this picture (please no judging) I just stuck it all together to see what it looked like. I was very happy with how smooth and even I had made this. Each knife I do, I seem to improve on how clean the grind gets. I considered leaving it alone and going straight to and edge. Some guys don’t approve of a jig but no more knives than I will make the jig is my friend. Just a note Bob I am using the same grinder you built.
For the guys that prefer to hand grind, more power to you I just don’t have that kind of time to invest. I doubt I could do as good even with years of practice.

 
Yeah, I'm not really looking for a definitive answer. I'd just like to hear from some of the veteran knifemakers how many blades they had to grind before they started to know that they would not have any trouble producing the intended grind. I've done three so it's not like I expect it to come any time soon. Just wondering if I should expect it to be 50 or 500 before I start to develop a good technique that will give me repeatable results. The real problem is that I looked at Jay Fisher's website yesterday and now I feel like a bumbling idiot!

Bob
 
I started making small hunters and like everyone (I assume) bevel grinding was the most difficult part. When I started making kitchen knives the difficulty went up ten fold but my learning curve increased due to the difficulty and amount of grinding that is done on a long, wide tapering blade with very very little room for error with such a thin edge. After getting the hang of that for several dozen blades that did not work out, I got to the point that the grinding was no longer a wild card and I could consistently obtain my objective. Then you start working on being quicker and more efficient.
 
Bubble Jig....

It will keep you on track at the angle you need. Establish an angle and use the bubble jig to grind it flat. Once you have an angle grind on one side you simply place that flat grind on the belt....it is like landing a plane on the run way.... lay that flat grind down and once it contact the belt you are set. Continue to grind and use your thumb and grip on the tang to place pressure directly your grind to travel toward the spine.

Use a tool rest to place your hand on and shift your body to move your arms across the belt. Do not try to force the steel into the belt. Let the belt do its job and grind away gently in the beginning until you get the feel for it.

It really is not that hard... you just need to establish a procedure and follow it. Sometimes mixing things up while you are doing it will give you inconsistent grinds and can be frustrating.
 
I cant tell you how long it will take you get good at bevels, but what I can tell you is how long it takes to muck one up.....2 seconds ;0)
 
I suggest a Bubble Jig as well.
Its my own invention and I do make money off them; but if you want to learn to grind free hand and in a very short amount of time, get one. Money back if you are not thrilled with the results you get.

I have not tossed a bad grind in 6 years :)
 
Yep, bubble jig, combined with a Bruce Bump carbide faced file guide, wonderful package.
 
It depends mostly on focus and patience. With care you can get the first one perfect... but it might take a month.

Previous experience counts for a lot, too... for instance, it's going to come a lot quicker to someone who's worked in a cabinetry shop for twenty years, than to a teenager who's never built anything more complicated than a paper airplane.

I haven't tossed a grind in quite a while, but I've had to fix a few... which brings me to my next point...

Don't overlook "cheating", either. There's nothing wrong with getting a bevel pretty close and cleaning it up with files and/or sandpaper.
 
Keep at it.

Everyone is different, but if you keep at you'll get better.

These skills are hard won for most of us.

Tenacity is what it takes.

Free hand, jigs, work rests, whatever works for you I say use it.

I promise if you grind fifty you'll be tons better than you are now.

Get to work!:D:D

Greg
 
a millisecond to do it wrong and a lifetime to perfect. Anything that helps you build muscle memory and awareness of how your blade interacts with the belt will help (may I suggest bright lighting and a comfortable working height)

-Page
 
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I'm not complaining. I'm very willing to put in the work to attain the skill. Just wanted to get a feel for how long that might take. I do get a little discouraged when I see my grinds start to go awry. I definitely have better feel working right-handed. I do need to improve my light and I think an Opti-Visor would help. I have a hard time seeing my scribed lines on the edge.

Bob
 
All sound advice. Like James said, get it close and clean it up at first. Let your techinque hone in so to speak... You will get to where you can step one off with a 36 and run it out to 600 grit without stopping soon enough...

Vigil mentioned using your body. One of the best how to's I saw when starting was Ed Caffrey demonstrating using your whole body to grind. Fixing the hands in one place and using your body for everything. Saved my elbows and back. Good work height and lighting like Page suggests is worth more than anything. Shadows can play tricks on you and bad work height can wreck your joints. Keep pink and warm stuff away from hot, pointy or spinning things obviously... Another trick someone here mentioned recently was starting with your weak side and grinding your strong to match. I know I chased a few grinds right off the steel trying to match my left with my right when I was learning.

I learned grinding straight up free hand and trashed a lot of blades. Since, I have been able to play with some jigs including the bubble jig. And I will give Fred a nod. The bubble jig is as close to free grinding as you can get while still having some help and is a helluva neat invention...

Good luck.

-Eric
 
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