How long does it take you to do a hidden tang

cbr900son

cbr900son

Joined
Mar 3, 2011
Messages
1,010
So im sitting in my shop today with my small files slowly trying to get that perfect fit for my hidden tang in a nice piece of maple. Thought about it and wondered how long it takes you to get a hidden tang handle fitted.
 
I am slow but it takes me at least a couple of hours in antler.......for a thru tang. For a short stick tang I prefer to do mortice style.
Darcy:)
 
Antler takes me about 5 minutes. Wood takes a little longer, probably 10 - 15 minutes.
 
It's a practiced thing. Takes me about 15 min on most materials. I drill slightly undersized and then burn the tang through for a tight fit. Thinned epoxy will lock up any charred residual. You litterally have to destroy my handles to ge them off (tested this many times...don't ask).
 
It depends on the use and construction type.
On a through tang, with a pommel nut, it must be closer fitting than a stick tang that is epoxied in the hole.

On stick tangs, I just drill the hole and ream it out with a bit the size of the tang thickness. The epoxy will take care of the slack. This takes only a few minutes per knife.

If burning in a handle, I prefer to make a copy tang in mild steel and use it to do the fitting first. Then, once the hole is burned in, I use the real blade to do the final fitting. This avoids the possible ruining of the tang threads or the temper.

Making a tang hole broaching tool will help speed thing up a lot. Old sawz-all blades can be converted easily. You only need about 1/2" of teeth.
Here is a trick:
Take the sawz-all blade and clamp your shoulder grinding jig on the tip 1". Grind the rest of the blade down on the grinder, without worrying about getting it hot. The clamp will act as a heat sink and keep the tip teeth hard. Once pre-shaped, remove the clamp and finish shaping the broach. You may need to use a small diamond disc to cut down and shape the teeth you decide keep.

Here are some threads on broaches:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/838734-Make-yourself-some-broaches
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/359466-Pommel-on-stag-hidden-tang
 
The longest part of hidden tang to do for me is getting the guard to fit perfect. I try to make it look like the blade is growing out of the guard with no gaps at all. I have messed up many guards doing this but I am being persistent with practice.
I have a friend who uses a cnc milling machine for this and claims it is the easiest part for him. I use a milling machine (cut undersized) and I have been using small files to open it up to fit tight. This is very time consuming.
Jim
 
cbr900son said:
Im jealous. it always takes me a good bit. I do need some better files tho. These cheap HF ones dont cut well.
Click to expand...

The next time we're at Dans remind me to show you a couple of things. Like Stacy said, handle broaches work very well and speed things up a lot.
 
darrin sanders said:
The next time we're at Dans remind me to show you a couple of things. Like Stacy said, handle broaches work very well and speed things up a lot.
Click to expand...
Yeah I need to buy some broaches. Its one of those things I just always forget to do. One day I need to make the drive out to visit I got family semi close I need to visit anyway.
 
Yeah, never throw away a broken saw blade. I have a can full of "broaches", some forward cutting some draw cutting and some of the superfine cuts (go either way). That's what I use any excess epoxy for, just keep a few handle pieces and blades right-there-ready. Little work on the grinder to reduce the back down for smaller holes helps alot in tighter places. Use chunks of broken hacksaw blades for even finer cut work.
Fitting guards......well, for me the least desirable part of knifemaking, but you can't trust the shop rat to get it right.
I clamp my blade in a large vise with thick aluminum jaw inserts that both protect from maring and act as a heatsink. Never gotten the tang hot enough close to the blade to even discolor it, usually only takes the first two inches or so. Always wear gloves and be aware that something very hot "this way comes".
Light touch on wirewheel cleans the threaded section up just fine. I really like the "keyhole" effect of the burn in, helps keep the blade aligned properly during final glue-up.
 
I'd be very interested in seeing the fit the guys get that say they do it so fast. I've seen a few guys who grind their tang down to a pencil and then just drill a 5/16" hole and slop a bunch of epoxy in there.

I leave my tangs as wide and long as possible, which requires a nice, tight fit... or you'll grind into the hole when shaping the handle.

Drilling the holes in the mill, then roughing out the bulk of material at the front of the hole with an extra long, undersized end mill... then using broaches, it takes me about 25 minutes at best, up to over an hour.

Heating the tang is a really bad idea unless you're using really simple cheap materials. Just about any higher end material shouldn't be jammed onto a hot tang. Try it with ivory and you'll end up with a bunch of cracks in your material.

All just my opinion, but I've done more than a couple of these ;) :)
 
My tangs are slightly tapered to make guard and handle fitting a little easier but otherwise they are full size. They are definitley bigger than a pencil. My holes are not a 5/16" hole filled with epoxy. I don't have a mill, so I use aircraft length drill bits, broaches, and files. It takes me longer to measure and mark everything than it does to actually remove the material. This is one of the parts of hidden tangs that I hate the most. But I can get a nice snug fit in just a few minutes with this method.
 
NickWheeler said:
I've seen a few guys who grind their tang down to a pencil and then just drill a 5/16" hole and slop a bunch of epoxy in there.
Click to expand...

Crap, I wish you told me that Nick, before you made me buy one of Johnny Perry's reamers! ;)
 
Heres one I soldered stainless to stainless- fore and aft thats dirt at the joint, the solder
is clean. I'm with Nick on the time- takes me a bit longer to do a good hole thru the handle.
Ken.
102_0563.jpg
 
Well I ran to home depot and grabbed a few 2$ saw blades and made some ghetto style broaches and man did I not know what I was missing! I still want to find a nice 1/8" broach somewhere but these sped things along real nice!!! Making my wife a japanese inspired chef's knife. Now to heat treat the blade and finish some sanding on the granite to get everything perfect but this is what I have so far.

Knife and ghetto broach - knife is 1/8 1080 with curly maple .060" copper spacer and rosewood spacer at top

IMG_0474.jpg


About 95% of my knives have been full tang so im kinda proud of mysefl here. Look MAW no gaps

IMG_0475.jpg


Just got to sand and finish final shaping of the handle and take some time to sand on the granite I have so everything is perfectly flat and mates up well.



THANK YALL ALL FOR THE ADVICE!!!!!! This is for my wife's b-day at the end of the month so this knife is especially important to me and I appreciate the help to get it as nice as I can!
 
Heating the tang works okay with less dense and oily wood like maple and walnut or supposedly for whitetail antler if you are doing it the old fashioned way, but for most other materials, it is probably not a good idea. Driving ANYTHING into the more brittle woods like ebony, ironwood or snakewood is a recipe for disaster. Making the hole for a through tang is the easiest part of making any handle IMO. It's the rest of the process that is a little trickier than say a regular hidden tang. I would HIGHLY recommend John Perry's handle broaches is he is still making them.
 
jdm61 said:
I would HIGHLY recommend John Perry's handle broaches is he is still making them.
Click to expand...

I bought mine from John last September. He owns a tool and die shop, so just call him up and he'll make one if he doesn't have one in stock.
 
lazlo said:
I bought mine from John last September. He owns a tool and die shop, so just call him up and he'll make one if he doesn't have one in stock.
Click to expand...
Ill have to call him sometime soon! Gonna look for his site now.
 
For a quick fit,... you can drill a pilot hole (scrape it out more rectangular if needed), grease or wax the tapered tang, fill the hole with epoxy, slide the tang in and when the epoxy gets "leather hard", release the tang and you'll have a perfect fit and you can slide the handle off and on. The only thing is you need to degrease the tang and hole before final assembly.

5-10 minutes less the epoxy curing time.

(scrapers are much faster than files)
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top