How long should a razor edge last

[Student762]

I have recently been trying to master the art of sharpening and I've been getting some awesome results, razor edges on all my knives, it's brilliant! But I have notice that the edges wear off quite quickly and need to be stropped often. I have a razor edge on a SAK camping model, Charge tti and a no name back lock. The tti keeps its edge for quite a while being s30v but the SAK and no name don't. The no name has a blade stamp claiming 440 stainless but it doesn't say much beyond that. I free hand sharpen so I was wondering whether I need to change the angle of my hone or work to a finer grit, I go to 600 now and use a leather strop. What should I do, or is it normal to have to strop this often?

 

[The Aflac Duck]

I have recently been trying to master the art of sharpening and I've been getting some awesome results, razor edges on all my knives, it's brilliant! But I have notice that the edges wear off quite quickly and need to be stropped often. I have a razor edge on a SAK camping model, Charge tti and a no name back lock. The tti keeps its edge for quite a while being s30v but the SAK and no name don't. The no name has a blade stamp claiming 440 stainless but it doesn't say much beyond that. I free hand sharpen so I was wondering whether I need to change the angle of my hone or work to a finer grit, I go to 600 now and use a leather strop. What should I do, or is it normal to have to strop this often?

I think you answered your own question

Some steels are softer and will not hold an edge like some of the "premium" steels, but that doesn't make them bad.

The softer steels will be brought back to "razor sharp" much faster than some premium steels will since they are softer. That is why some premium steels are so hard to reprofile and sharpen, while some "softer" steels only require a quick strop to get sharp.

You could always sharpen at a more obtuse angle for strength, depending on the angle you have set now.

 

[Student762]

doing 15 degrees inclusive now so I'll reset my honing guid (the old right hand)

 

[The Aflac Duck]

15 degree inclusive?? Like 7.5 degree each side?? that's like a straight razor! An edge that fine is for light chores or shaving. That's scary sharp!!!

Most factory edges are ballparked at around 30-50 degree inclusive!!!

There is nothing wrong with a 15 degree inclusive edge, but it wont be the strongest edge.

 

[dalefuller]

Like Blues Bender said, you need to match the edge to the type of steel and type of chores you'll be doing. A 15 deg inclusive edge is very thin... sharp, but thin. It won't stand up to normal daily chores for many people. You can get a more obtuse edge (12 to 15 deg per side) razor sharp and it'll last longer, depending on the steel it's made from.

S30V is a good steel for everyday use. So is 154CM, CPM154, VG10, AUS8, S35V... and those are just some of the stainless steels. These can be sharpened to a shaving edge somewhere between 20 and 12 deg per side and do just fine for everyday use. If you want a dedicated slicer for softer materials and some food prep, 7 to 10 deg per side will make a good edge, but you'll need to be picky about what you use it on and you'll probably still need to touch it up more often.

 

[Ankerson]

I think you answered your own question

Some steels are softer and will not hold an edge like some of the "premium" steels, but that doesn't make them bad.

The softer steels will be brought back to "razor sharp" much faster than some premium steels will since they are softer. That is why some premium steels are so hard to reprofile and sharpen, while some "softer" steels only require a quick strop to get sharp.

You could always sharpen at a more obtuse angle for strength, depending on the angle you have set now.

Some steels are softer and will not hold an edge like some of the "premium" steels, but that doesn't make them bad.

HUH?

What the hell is a softer steel?

The softer steels will be brought back to "razor sharp" much faster than some premium steels will since they are softer. That is why some premium steels are so hard to reprofile and sharpen, while some "softer" steels only require a quick strop to get sharp.

Again.... What the hell is a softer steel?

I would love to know where people are getting this information from because it is so wrong and so far off?

What the hell is a hard and soft steel?

Please let people know where this gross misinformation is coming from.....

 

[Ankerson]

I have recently been trying to master the art of sharpening and I've been getting some awesome results, razor edges on all my knives, it's brilliant! But I have notice that the edges wear off quite quickly and need to be stropped often. I have a razor edge on a SAK camping model, Charge tti and a no name back lock. The tti keeps its edge for quite a while being s30v but the SAK and no name don't. The no name has a blade stamp claiming 440 stainless but it doesn't say much beyond that. I free hand sharpen so I was wondering whether I need to change the angle of my hone or work to a finer grit, I go to 600 now and use a leather strop. What should I do, or is it normal to have to strop this often?

I would recommend you read this....

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/368828-Steel-FAQ

 

[Bo T]

HUH?

What the hell is a softer steel?

Again.... What the hell is a softer steel?

Duh? A steel that is not as hard as a harder steel. Everyone knows that. Edge durability in not necessarily related to the hardness of the blade. A blade that has a heat treatment that gives it a structure with a lot of lower bainite in the martensite might have a more durable edge at an HRc in the lower 50s than a tempered martensite blade in the upper 50s. And it gets more complex. Does the steel have carbides? What is being cut? In the OPs case, The SAK and no names blades have been tempered such that they are probably softer then the S30V blade.

 

[Ankerson]

Duh? A steel that is not as hard as a harder steel. Everyone knows that. Edge durability in not necessarily related to the hardness of the blade. A blade that has a heat treatment that gives it a structure with a lot of lower bainite in the martensite might have a more durable edge at an HRc in the lower 50s than a tempered martensite blade in the upper 50s. And it gets more complex. Does the steel have carbides? What is being cut? In the OPs case, The SAK and no names blades have been tempered such that they are probably softer then the S30V blade.

Enlighten me please with your infinite wisdom of this subject....

 

[Bo T]

Enlighten me please with your infinite wisdom of this subject....

Whaaat, I thought I just did? As a matter of course I operate under the KISS rules and leave the more complex analysis to others. In the OPs case, going to a finer grit in sharpening his blades won't help much so a more obtuse angle is called for. But, not knowing the OPs level of sharpness satisfaction I don't know if this will help.

 

[Ankerson]

Whaaat, I thought I just did? As a matter of course I operate under the KISS rules and leave the more complex analysis to others. In the OPs case, going to a finer grit in sharpening his blades won't help much so a more obtuse angle is called for. But, not knowing the OPs level of sharpness satisfaction I don't know if this will help.

Hard and Soft steel doesn't mean anything......... That's why I posted in this thread.....

I would love to know were these people are getting this terminology from.........

 

[Auraria]

In my opinion it depends on the steel, HT, Quench, Tempering, thickness, geometry, and to what grit the edge is taken to.
The abuse it takes and what it will be cutting will affect it heavily also.

 

[kniferbro]

Hard and Soft steel doesn't mean anything......... That's why I posted in this thread.....

I would love to know were these people are getting this terminology from.........

Please enlighten us with your holier than thou knowledge. If knives are sold with reported Rockwell Hardness values, I would say that a steel can be "hard" and some steels can be less "hard" which we have a term for, "softer". Instead of passive-aggressively flexing your knowledge on the subject, why don't you speak in non-cryptic posts and explain your stance.

 

[Ankerson]

Please enlighten us with your holier than thou knowledge. If knives are sold with reported Rockwell Hardness values, I would say that a steel can be "hard" and some steels can be less "hard" which we have a term for, "softer". Instead of passive-aggressively flexing your knowledge on the subject, why don't you speak in non-cryptic posts and explain your stance.

I want to know what THEY think it means.....

So I won't have to do a long drawn out steel 101 post.......

Instead I could address just that one part.....

 

[Auraria]

I want to know what THEY think it means.....

So I won't have to do a long drawn out steel 101 post.......

Instead I could address just that one part.....

So I'm having difficulties understanding your standpoint.

How is a difference in rockwell hardness not harder or softer in terms of measurement?
And a Higher rockwell hardness means a more brittle blade with a lower rockwell hardness being more flexible, how is that not correct?
If I'm wrong a 90 rockwell piece of steel can bend 45 degrees.

 

[Ankerson]

So I'm having difficulties understanding your standpoint.

How is a difference in rockwell hardness not harder or softer in terms of measurement?
And a Higher rockwell hardness means a more brittle blade with a lower rockwell hardness being more flexible, how is that not correct?
If I'm wrong a 90 rockwell piece of steel can bend 45 degrees.

In the context of how I been seeing it used LATELY it has NOTHING to do with RC hardness......... And RC hardness isn't even referenced....

Like in the post I quoted......

 

[Auraria]

In the context of how I been seeing it used LATELY it has NOTHING to do with RC hardness......... And RC hardness isn't even referenced....

Like in the post I quoted......

I think I'm seeing where you are coming from now, please do not think I'm toying with you or being a Donkey.
As in they are refering to steels as hard or softer than other without referring to RC scale?
Such as saying 440c is harder than 1090cv when 1095 can be 58 RC and 440c can be 60RC?

 

[kniferbro]

I want to know what THEY think it means.....

So I won't have to do a long drawn out steel 101 post.......

Instead I could address just that one part.....

Well I'm guessing when you say "what the hell is a soft steel? what the hell is a hard steel?" you're alluding to the fact that hardness is not the only variable that affects edge retention. Toughness, carbide distribution, etc. (I am no expert on the subject) all change edge retention so to say hardness is a good indicator of how long a knife will hold a razor edge, per the OP, is ludicrous. Cool, okay, but seeing from the steel the OP is sharpening and the grit he is taking his edges I find your extremely detailed stance on the subject to not be succinct to the thread. Again just flexing knowledge.

If an everyday person were to ask me "what makes some cars faster than others?" I could tell them that in general, the larger the engine (Liters), the more horsepower, the faster the car. That would be true for 99% of cars and would serve to answer the question. OR I could tell them well there are turbo and superchargers and exhaust systems and tuning of the computer that can all make for a faster car. A turbo4 may have a 2.3L engine, but if it has a bunch of money put into it, it can be faster than a v8.

I would say in confidence that Victorinox's INOX steel rates at a lower RC (softer) than the s30v on the leatherman, and so has poorer edge retention than the s30v.

 

[Ankerson]

I think I'm seeing where you are coming from now, please do not think I'm toying with you or being a Donkey.
As in they are refering to steels as hard or softer than other without referring to RC scale?
Such as saying 440c is harder than 1090cv when 1095 can be 58 RC and 440c can be 60RC?

Yeah, exactly.....

WTF is a hard steel?

Or a Soft steel.... ?

Like saying S30V is a hard steel...... WTF does that mean to them.....

Because it makes no since at all.....

 

[Ankerson]

Well I'm guessing when you say "what the hell is a soft steel? what the hell is a hard steel?" you're alluding to the fact that hardness is not the only variable that affects edge retention. Toughness, carbide distribution, etc. (I am no expert on the subject) all change edge retention so to say hardness is a good indicator of how long a knife will hold a razor edge, per the OP, is ludicrous. Cool, okay, but seeing from the steel the OP is sharpening and the grit he is taking his edges I find your extremely detailed stance on the subject to not be succinct to the thread. Again just flexing knowledge.

If an everyday person were to ask me "what makes some cars faster than others?" I could tell them that in general, the larger the engine (Liters), the more horsepower, the faster the car. That would be true for 99% of cars and would serve to answer the question. OR I could tell them well there are turbo and superchargers and exhaust systems and tuning of the computer that can all make for a faster car. A turbo4 may have a 2.3L engine, but if it has a bunch of money put into it, it can be faster than a v8.

I would say in confidence that Victorinox's INOX steel rates at a lower RC (softer) than the s30v on the leatherman, and so has poorer edge retention than the s30v.

It's more about in how they are using the terms hard and soft.....

In the context of how they are being used lately it's so vague and wrong it makes my head hurt.....

So I want to know what the terms mean to them and were they are getting the information.....