How long should a survival knife be?

On a budget, Mora and a Bahco laplander saw.

Other, I like ESEE, in whatever size is comfortable.
 
Urban Survivalist. 5" blade, 10" overall, from .200" Elmax.

 
Charlie Mike said:
Urban Survivalist. 5" blade, 10" overall, from .200" Elmax.
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This brings up a great point; what exactly are you surviving?

Is it urban survival?
In that case it will be whatever is in my pocket and backpack generally.

Is it fleeing form a natural disaster?
Are you fleeing through the countryside or cities?

Is it a woods/hiking trip gone wrong?
That's the most likely one for me, probably, as I could totally see myself getting lost sometime (I have an astoundingly terrible sense of direction). In that case I will have a big knife, what's normally in my backpack and pockets, as well as extra water and food, because that's how I roll in the woods. :)
 
stabman said:
This brings up a great point; what exactly are you surviving?

Is it urban survival?
In that case it will be whatever is in my pocket and backpack generally.

Is it fleeing form a natural disaster?
Are you fleeing through the countryside or cities?

Is it a woods/hiking trip gone wrong?
That's the most likely one for me, probably, as I could totally see myself getting lost sometime (I have an astoundingly terrible sense of direction). In that case I will have a big knife, what's normally in my backpack and pockets, as well as extra water and food, because that's how I roll in the woods. :)
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Sentry removal and cigarette smoking.
 
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cricketdave said:
It depends on what you like and will carry, for me at least 7 inches. I carry between a 7 1/2 and a 9 1/2 on my belt in the woods all the time with no problems. Along with a pocket knife your pretty set for any cutting or chopping you need to do.
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^^^ But what are you surviving? City or Woods, Desert, Mangrove swamp?
 
A survival knife must be long enough to drive your enemies before you, and hear the lamentations of their women.
 
Charlie Mike said:
Urban Survivalist. 5" blade, 10" overall, from .200" Elmax.

Click to expand...

Nice. I have a Terzoula designed CQB from the old Camillus USA CUDA line. It's right in there with this design... I think you'd like it, CM.

Get the 7 inch, then get the 5 inch later and see which you like better.... or do vice versa.

It's going to take using some blades to find out what the best knife length is FOR YOU.

I mean, we're a band of merry geniuses and all... but we're not omnivorous like the almighty.
 
My bk2 has really come in handy in all my outdoor activities! If you are a grown man the weight will be negligible!
 
Velitrius said:
It's going to take using some blades to find out what the best knife length is FOR YOU.

I mean, we're a band of merry geniuses and all... but we're not omnivorous like the almighty.
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I'd go with your instincts in terms of knife size and what you believe you'd be comfortable carrying. Both of the Schrade's will work. I have made other suggestions, but ultimately it is your choice. Personally, I would rather have a Condor than the Schrade, but I have been using Condor blades fora number of years now and have confidence in them.

I believe the OP said he is on a limited budget. But we don't know what that means really other than either of the two Schrade blades. He also said the knife is for bushcraft tasks primarily (which means woods survival so to speak), and includes batonning, notching, limited chopping, and general camp site activities.
 
Any "Survival Knife" should be expected to be able to build a shelter... All my knives have at least one thermal blanket, often wrapped around the sheath or attached to it, and over 20 feet of rope...

The simple act of building a shelter is hugely draining to a knife, I would even say it is damaging, not just wearing... And by the time you are done building a real shelter, depending on the wood you encounter, you are cutting wood with a butter knife (which is why it is best to start with the sharpest thinnest edge possible, on the biggest possible knife)...

Re-sharpening in the field will not allow you to do a heavy edge re-profile, so that will only provide a moderate amount of help along the way in slowing down the edge decay: A thin edge will last a lot longer than a thick edge, because all the re-sharpening in the field will do is gradually open the angle... Start out with as closed an angle as you can...: I consider 15 degrees per side borderline excessive... And that often means avoiding thick convex edges like on a San Mai III Trailmaster... A thick edge, even one that shaves hair, is exactly the opposite of what you want for rough work...

A longer edge will also last longer, just because there is more of it... Putting the title "Survival" on those tiny bushcraft blades is a patently ridiculous fad because of this edge durability issue alone... Why not deliberately start out with soft untreated steel while you are at it?

Chopping power below 9" very quickly goes down: 10" blades are a jump in performance even over 9". I would say a good Survival Knife should have a 10" blade minimum. Avoid full tangs that transmit vibrations to the hand: I prefer stick tangs or hollow handles.

Edge wear is why main edge serrations can actually help (if the knife's edge is typical factory work and not very thin), because serrated edges will retain some cutting ability, without sharpening, and do this for many multiples of the hard use plain edges will widthstand... This is why having a thin profile serrated edge on the spine, which relatively few knives ever do -a rare exception being the AL Mar SF-10- makes a lot of sense, and may make more sense than having a low-performance wood saw there...

This is one reliable expert's view (agreeing with at least a few others) on what is required for true survival:

http://www.m4040.com/Survival/Survival.htm

“Bush” Blades... Function or Fad?

- By M40 – Sept, 2007

Quote, (note the points in bold): "I know the term "bush knife" has come to signify a blade about 4-6" in length and about an inch to 2" wide. Many have stag or hardwood handles, and some even sport really beautiful craftsmanship. I'm not sure just how and why these came into fashion or how folks came to think that these had any place in an outdoors environment. The design falls FAR short of what an outdoors blade should be. I've seen pocket knives that sport bigger and more functional blades.

These are skinners maybe, but definitely not choppers (the primary task of an outdoors blade). Oddly enough, there's very little whittling to be done in most wilderness survival situations. If the size and weight of these "bush" knives appeals to you, you really should consider packing a decent folder or a multi-tool instead. A multi-tool has a lot more to offer in the way of tools you can actually use.

A true bush blade (as I would make it) is a chopping machine. It's a large bowie or kukri style blade with a weight-forward balance that makes short work of brush and limbs. It's a one-tool carpentry shop that can whip up a shelter on short notice when the weather rolls in.

To sum up, I'd rather see someone tackle the outdoors with a $15 Ontario mil-spec machete than any of those really expensive and pretty "bush" blades."

Unless that is, you want to spend a huge amount of effort using a tiny blade that will dull in the blink of an eye because it is so small and overworked...

Gaston
 
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Gaston444 said:
Any "Survival Knife" should be expected to be able to build a shelter... All my knives have at least one thermal blanket, often wrapped around the sheath or attached to it, and over 20 feet of rope...

The simple act of building a shelter is hugely draining to a knife, I would even say it is damaging, not just wearing... And by the time you are done building a real shelter, depending on the wood you encounter, you are cutting wood with a butter knife (which is why it is best to start with the sharpest thinnest edge possible, on the biggest possible knife)...

Re-sharpening in the field will not allow you to do a heavy edge re-profile, so that will only provide a moderate amount of help along the way in slowing down the edge decay: A thin edge will last a lot longer than a thick edge, because all the re-sharpening in the field will do is gradually open the angle... Start out with as closed an angle as you can...: I consider 15 degrees per side borderline excessive... And that often means avoiding thick convex edges like on a San Mai III Trailmaster... A thick edge, even one that shaves hair, is exactly the opposite of what you want for rough work...

A longer edge will also last longer, just because there is more of it... Putting the title "Survival" on those tiny bushcraft blades is a patently ridiculous fad because of this edge durability issue alone... Why not deliberately start out with soft untreated steel while you are at it?

Chopping power below 9" very quickly goes down: 10" blades are a jump in performance even over 9". I would say a good Survival Knife should have a 10" blade minimum. Avoid full tangs that transmit vibrations to the hand: I prefer stick tangs or hollow handles.

Edge wear is why main edge serrations can actually help (if the knife's edge is typical factory work and not very thin), because serrated edges will retain some cutting ability, without sharpening, and do this for many multiples of the hard use plain edges will widthstand... This is why having a thin profile serrated edge on the spine, which relatively few knives ever do -a rare exception being the AL Mar SF-10- makes a lot of sense, and may make more sense than having a low-performance wood saw there...

This is one reliable expert's view (agreeing with at least a few others) on what is required for true survival:

http://www.m4040.com/Survival/Survival.htm

“Bush” Blades... Function or Fad?

- By M40 – Sept, 2007

Quote, (note the points in bold): "I know the term "bush knife" has come to signify a blade about 4-6" in length and about an inch to 2" wide. Many have stag or hardwood handles, and some even sport really beautiful craftsmanship. I'm not sure just how and why these came into fashion or how folks came to think that these had any place in an outdoors environment. The design falls FAR short of what an outdoors blade should be. I've seen pocket knives that sport bigger and more functional blades.

These are skinners maybe, but definitely not choppers (the primary task of an outdoors blade). Oddly enough, there's very little whittling to be done in most wilderness survival situations. If the size and weight of these "bush" knives appeals to you, you really should consider packing a decent folder or a multi-tool instead. A multi-tool has a lot more to offer in the way of tools you can actually use.

A true bush blade (as I would make it) is a chopping machine. It's a large bowie or kukri style blade with a weight-forward balance that makes short work of brush and limbs. It's a one-tool carpentry shop that can whip up a shelter on short notice when the weather rolls in.

To sum up, I'd rather see someone tackle the outdoors with a $15 Ontario mil-spec machete than any of those really expensive and pretty "bush" blades."

Unless that is, you want to spend a huge amount of effort using a tiny blade that will dull in the blink of an eye because it is so small and overworked...

Gaston
Click to expand...
I understand where you're coming from, but I'd like to point out that settlers and pioneers survived many a night without a long heavy knife.
 
I was in your shoes just last week, needed to find a budget blade or blades that could handle any and all tasks that may arise in an emergency situation with the caveat that if they would break or be stolen(I plan on keeping them in my car) I would not grieve over the loss. I ended up buying a Schrade Schf36 and a Condor Hudon Bay Knife. Both very affordable and have great track records. I am a strict adherent of the three blade system: Large Knife, Medium Knife, and small knife. My small knife is my edc folder, I alternate budget priced ones meaning $25 or less like the RAT.

Other budget options are:

Mora or Marttiini knives.

The Cold Steel GI Tanto, Bushman series, or True Flight Thrower.

The Condor series especially the Bushlore and Rodan are great and affordable or larger knives like the Kumunga or Hudson Bay.

Schrade Schf36 and Schf9 get great reviews but the Schf37 have gotten a lot of bad reviews due to bent blades.

A Bahco foldable saw and a Estwing Sportsman Axe are also great ideas and easy on the budget.
 
My vote is just get a budget smaller blade, like a Morakniv or Opinel for the finer stuff, while you get the 7in blade for the bigger chopping knife. The knife is easier to use than a small hatchet, cheaper as well, and a lot more useful for other stuff as well.

My usual woods setup is a 9in Becker BK9 and a 4in folder or neck knife for the fine work. Right now that smaller knife is a Fiddleback Bushfinger, but you could get away with a $10 opinel folder or Morakniv fixed blade and get great knives out of either one.
 
Location, and the other gear you plan on carrying will really be the deciding factors. If you have shelter material and are dressed appropriately for your weather, you won't need to do any massive shelter building. That Mora and Laplander combo shown above would be the best cutting tool choice for just about anywhere on earth though.
 
I think the most important factor in knife size are the skills the user has to take advantage of with a knife. It might not make sense to go over 4" if you expect to do a lot of detail work, making traps and that sort of thing. But if you don't know how or what to carve, that's not going to help you.

Same thing with carrying a chopper some place where the wood either doesn't need or is too hard for a knife to deal with.


Sometime a tiny knife and a folding saw are a much better way to use up an allocation of weight in your kit.
 
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